What would you do differently if you could do your PV install fresh?

[Gill]

I'm just starting out getting PV installers out for assessment / estimates. 

 

Any lessons learned? Things you wish you'd taken into consideration? 

 

Financially, it's a no brainer as we have no gas supply in the area and a reasonable south facing roof with smaller West facing space. Additional smaller south roof on stand alone garage which I hope to convert to office. Divert to UVC will give me 7 kWh of storage. Summer generation more than we can use but down the line we'll no doubt go EV. 

[MikeSharp01]

3 minutes ago, Gill said:

Summer generation more than we can use but down the line we'll no doubt go EV.

Set me wondering how the taxation of EV charging, along shortly I am confident to replace fuel duty, will work if you do it via your PV as you won't be able to insert it after the meter on your EV charge point.

[Gill]

5 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Set me wondering how the taxation of EV charging, along shortly I am confident to replace fuel duty, will work if you do it via your PV as you won't be able to insert it after the meter on your EV charge point.

 

Can't say I've looked into EV as yet. I have a cheap run around citigo that probably has another 5 years in it with mileage so low it doesn't make sense to go EV. That said, the distance drive car probably not got more than a year or two on it. 

 

How do you think EV taxation may pan out in relation to PV generation? I'm keen to get the PV install right for future needs. 

[Marvin]

4 minutes ago, Gill said:

How do you think EV taxation may pan out in relation to PV generation? I'm keen to get the PV install right for future needs. 

Hi @Gill

 

In my humble opinion the government needs tax money so the more popular EV vehicles the more taxation.

 

Again in my humble opinion I would install as many panels as could sensibly be installed. Yor right not enough in the winter too much in the summer (unless you use for cooling...) PV, EV, ASHP and power storage for night use all work well for us. 

[Marvin]

25 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Set me wondering how the taxation of EV charging, along shortly I am confident to replace fuel duty, will work if you do it via your PV as you won't be able to insert it after the meter on your EV charge point.

Hi @MikeSharp01

 

Good one - perhaps that's another thing smart meters will sort out, or taxed on miles, or increased road fund licence. I bet they have thought of it but don't want to talk about it until everyone is using an EV!!!

Edited May 7, 2023 by Marvin
spelling error

[JohnMo]

Install 3x more than you think you need, may waste some energy in summer or looking another way give your local community some free green energy.  But will have some to use in the winter.

 

Lots of solar and ASHP, maybe an electric vehicle it not convinced yet.

[SteamyTea]

33 minutes ago, Gill said:

How do you think EV taxation may pan out in relation to PV generation

We already have a system to tax vehicles, Road Fund License. Why reinvent the wheel, just change the amount charged. 

They had a Highways Agency vehicle parked up on the A30 last week logging all the passing vehicles for RFL breaches.

 

[Gill]

8 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

 

Lots of solar and ASHP, maybe an electric vehicle it not convinced yet.

 

A2A is hopefully going to be our heating system if I ever find a responsive installer. 

 

Good point with the extra winter generation.

 

Will be interesting to see what potential installers say about feasibility of using the stand alone garage as well as the smaller east facing space. 

[MikeSharp01]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

We already have a system to tax vehicles, Road Fund License. Why reinvent the wheel

I suspect because this will be something of a square wheel. Imagine paying the £100s, possibly £1000s, of quid I pay in fuel duty every year as a one off payment. It will have to be based on distance traveled and probably when traveled and by what road type as well.

 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, MikeSharp01 said:

I suspect because this will be something of a square wheel. Imagine paying the £100s, possibly £1000s, of quid I pay in fuel duty every year as a one off payment. It will have to be based on distance traveled and probably when traveled and by what road type as well.

 

Fuel duty raises about £25bn/year, so about £900/year for each private car, if all of it is pushed onto private cars.

So if we say £100/month to put a car on the road, we will be paying for all the fuel duty, so goods and services can be shuffled around the country cheaper.

Now let us also say that it costs half the price to run an EV compared to an ICE, and the mean national mileage is 12,000 miles a year and a car does 50 MPG.

That will be 90 litres a month, £135 on fuel at £1.50/litre.  An EV at half the price would be £67.50 for energy, plus the RFL, so call it £170.

My RFL is £185/year, so £15.40/month.  £150/month.  Very similar.

EVs are actually more economic to run, except for the very fast charger on Motorways that charge £2/kWh, for most people it will be around a tenth of that.

Now I think, to use nearly all of our national road network, when we want, for a flat fee of £150/month is very good value. 

Low mileage users may disagree, but then they do have a choice of alternatives.

Just to put it into perspective, if you are on minimum wage, you have to work 2 days every month to get to work.  That is really quite cheap when you think about it.

[RichardL]

Go a little left field - levi parking and ulez's, i.e. don't try to tax cars when they're moving - tax them when they stop - much easier to collect.

The whole taxing fuel, taxing milage with technology, pictures of cars in locations to deduce distance etc etc -  far too complex.
 

[The Reverend]

14 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Set me wondering how the taxation of EV charging, along shortly I am confident to replace fuel duty, will work if you do it via your PV as you won't be able to insert it after the meter on your EV charge point.

 

Vehicle excise Duty changes were announced in autumn statement 2022. (Proposal is below)☹

Proposed revisions

Schedule 2 of VERA 1994 will be amended so that the electrically propelled vehicle exemption no longer applies to cars, vans and motorcycles. The exemption for cars with low CO2 emissions will also be omitted. Schedule 1 will be amended so that electric cars, vans and motorcycles are liable to pay the same rates as petrol and diesel vehicles. Schedule 1 will also be amended so that new electric cars will be eligible to pay the higher rate of duty, commonly known as the expensive car supplement.

The Graduated Vehicle Excise Duty (Prescribed Types of Fuel) Regulations 2001 will also be revoked so that hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles are no longer eligible for the reduced rate.

[MikeSharp01]

16 minutes ago, The Reverend said:

Proposed revisions

Schedule 2 of VERA 1994 will be amended so that the electrically propelled vehicle exemption no longer applies to cars, vans and motorcycles. The exemption for cars with low CO2 emissions will also be omitted. Schedule 1 will be amended so that electric cars, vans and motorcycles are liable to pay the same rates as petrol and diesel vehicles. Schedule 1 will also be amended so that new electric cars will be eligible to pay the higher rate of duty, commonly known as the expensive car supplement.

The Graduated Vehicle Excise Duty (Prescribed Types of Fuel) Regulations 2001 will also be revoked so that hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles are no longer eligible for the reduced rate.

Interesting - so it has begun.

[Dillsue]

21 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Interesting - so it has begun.

And........ I beleive the next generation of EV chargers is mandated to have smart meters built in. I suspect as a minimum the correct rate of VAT can then be charged?? Could also be used for remote disconnection at peak times??

Edited May 8, 2023 by Dillsue

[MikeSharp01]

9 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

I beleive the next generation of EV chargers is mandated to have smart meters built in. I suspect as a minimum the correct rate of VAT can then be charged??

Yes - and some would say 'but why should I pay VAT on power I generated myself'  

[JohnMo]

10 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

EV chargers is mandated to have smart meters

That's great if your in an area where the smart meter works.  We have a normal smart meter it has never worked and cannot communicate, as no signal available to communicate through. 

 

Back to the topic PV?

[Dave Jones]

12 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Fuel duty raises about £25bn/year, so about £900/year for each private car, if all of it is pushed onto private cars.

So if we say £100/month to put a car on the road, we will be paying for all the fuel duty, so goods and services can be shuffled around the country cheaper.

Now let us also say that it costs half the price to run an EV compared to an ICE, and the mean national mileage is 12,000 miles a year and a car does 50 MPG.

That will be 90 litres a month, £135 on fuel at £1.50/litre.  An EV at half the price would be £67.50 for energy, plus the RFL, so call it £170.

My RFL is £185/year, so £15.40/month.  £150/month.  Very similar.

EVs are actually more economic to run, except for the very fast charger on Motorways that charge £2/kWh, for most people it will be around a tenth of that.

Now I think, to use nearly all of our national road network, when we want, for a flat fee of £150/month is very good value. 

Low mileage users may disagree, but then they do have a choice of alternatives.

Just to put it into perspective, if you are on minimum wage, you have to work 2 days every month to get to work.  That is really quite cheap when you think about it.

 

junk math. Lorries use loads.

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

Lorries use loads.

As I said, that would be putting all RFD onto private cars.

2 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

junk math

Where are your calculations then?

[Nick Thomas]

16 hours ago, Gill said:

Any lessons learned? Things you wish you'd taken into consideration? 

 

I did my install piecemeal, which I would definitely not do again. Plan it upfront, get the G99 upfront if your plan requires it, then get it all done in one go, including battery if you want one.

 

All I can say in my defence is that I was rushing to get something installed before winter 😅.

 

16 hours ago, Gill said:

Divert to UVC will give me 7 kWh of storage

 

If you're going MCS, a tariff like Octopus Flux will mean it's better to export to the grid at peak, then import electricity off-peak.

 

You don't pay VAT on exported power, of course.

[Dillsue]

1 hour ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Yes - and some would say 'but why should I pay VAT on power I generated myself'  

But the vast majority of EV charging will be from the grid. I assume/hope that any PV input into the charger will be downstream of the meter??

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, Dillsue said:

And........ I beleive the next generation of EV chargers is mandated to have smart meters built in. I suspect as a minimum the correct rate of VAT can then be charged?? Could also be used for remote disconnection at peak times??

I don't like the sound of that.

 

Although I don't have an EV I feel I need to buy a dumb, simple unmetered EV charge point ready for when I might need one, ready to fit when I need it without having a smart meter.

 

I hear talk of EV chargers needing to "communicate" with someone or something.  Not at this house they won't

[TonyT]

My EV charger is a dumb as a box of rocks, activated each night at 12:30to 04:30 to benefit from the cheaper electricity tariff

just the way I like it

[SteamyTea]

7 minutes ago, TonyT said:

My EV charger is a dumb as a box of rocks, activated each night at 12:30to 04:30 to benefit from the cheaper electricity tariff

just the way I like it

Have you ever had a look at the parasitic losses on an EV?

I think I read (may have been about Our Jeremy's Model 3) that they can easily chew through 3 kWh/day.  So around 125W while doing nothing.

So you may be better off, if your tariff allows, charging it later.

[Marvin]

58 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I hear talk of EV chargers needing to "communicate" with someone or something.  Not at this house they won't

Yes the idea is all "new" installations have to have smart meters and data cables so in the future the electricity supplier can control when your charger works, for your benefit.

 

This would conflict with our EV's timed charger option and our solar power "turn on the EV charger when over 3kWp being produced by our PV system"

[ProDave]

12 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Yes the idea is all "new" installations have to have smart meters and data cables so in the future the electricity supplier can control when your charger works, for your benefit.

 

This would conflict with our EV's timed charger option and our solar power "turn on the EV charger when over 3kWp being produced by our PV system"

Yes I don't want all that "control"  and heaven forbid if someone decides all ev's plugged in must be able to discharge to the grid on demand.

 

So should I buy a dumb EV charger now, to put away for when I want one, and dumb chargers are no longer available?