Help put my mind at ease

[DarrenP]

Hello,

 

Hoping someone can put my mind at ease... long running neighbour dispute over passed plans for an extension which is part 2 storey part single.

 

They objected, planning and committee passed the plans, builder appointed and party wall drawn up in September 2022. Neighbour then tried a Right of Light challenge which we sorted by way of deeds stating no ROL and also a survey done just to make 100% sure. In the mean time I also tried to appease the neighbour by applying for a single storey extension as planning wouldn't accept a material change to the existing plans.

 

Plans got passed, then we get a letter from a solicitor stating we now had to get a new PW drawn up... which is of course correct all be it our surveyor said it would just be an amendment to the one already done as nothing but the height has changed.

 

We then had to change builder ( long story) and decided what the hell we will go with original plan and do the 2 storey, we then got a letter saying we haven't done the PW agreement when in fact that was served back in 2022. We can only assume neighbour is thinking we are doing the single storey build. 

 

Just looking for reassurance that we are ok as the PW in 2022 covers the original plans and not the supplementary single storey planning application.

 

Thanks

[Dave Jones]

you have a scumbag neighbor. Stop all appeasement it wont work as you have found out and just crack on. 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, DarrenP said:

... we then got a letter saying we haven't done the PW agreement when in fact that was served back in 2022. ...

 

First of all welcome to Buildhub.

BH, .....Internationally famous and well known as the  Fifth Emergency Service - or is it the sixth -  after the Coastguard?

 

As @Dave Jones says above, crack on. Do you have proof of the Party Wall Agreement? If so, pop a copy through their letterbox.

Communication is a tricky art: I bet that 99.99 percent  (I'll need to check  that stat with @SteamyTea) of all problems aired on this Forum would disappear if people could talk to one another over a cuppa, hubba, or haggis or whatever.

 

 

 

 

[Kelvin]

Communication is definitely an art. Doing it via letters from a solicitor rarely works. The art in it is to always be shifting your tone words body language to match/mirror the other person, identify their primary concern, determine if it’s reasonable and come up with a mitigation. In your case I’d tell them to eff off. Show them your agreed planning consent and party wall agreement. Get on with your extension. Down the line your neighbour might soften or move or become more of an arse. Deal with that then. 

[MikeSharp01]

Welcome to BH.

 

There is another factor you may need to consider here. You are definitely in the right to crack although I do worry that the new single storey permission may have had some clause closing the previous two storey one. The additional factor is how long you intend to live in the property. When you come to sell it you will have to declare any issues you have had with neighbours, in England anyway. If only a few years after build this may put off purchasers who do not want to be landing in a still raw battle zone. 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

I bet that 99.99 percent  (I'll need to check  that stat with @SteamyTea) of all problems aired on this Forum would disappear if people could talk to one another over a cuppa, hubba, or haggis or whatever.

Two things,

1. Betting, in its true sense is either a chaotic outcome, randomly picked from a known distribution, or predictable from fundamental physics.

2. I bet that talking does not sort it out.

Edited April 26, 2023 by SteamyTea

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> The art in it is to always be shifting your tone words body language to match/mirror the other person, identify their primary concern, determine if it’s reasonable and come up with a mitigation. In your case I’d tell them to eff off.  (my highlighting)

 

Well that started my day with a smile.

[jack]

2 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

you have a scumbag neighbor. Stop all appeasement it wont work as you have found out and just crack on.

 

100% this.

 

Stop wasting time and emotional energy negotiating with people who aren't negotiating in good faith.

 

Tell them politely but firmly what you're going to do, provide copies of the documents supporting your right to do it, and then crack on.

[Temp]

If you actually prefer the single storey now..  you could also say... if you don't agree the new PWA on same terms without surveyors fees I will build the two storey.

 

 

[Temp]

3 hours ago, DarrenP said:

in fact that was served back in 2022.

 

Served or agreed? 

[Iceverge]

Neighbors are tricky. 

 

There's a few types of troublesome ones. 

 

Type 1: Francis the Frowning.

 

They assume they own everything they can see out their window. To stereotype this is normally someone retired, listens to LBC, reads the telegraph or the mail, has never ran a business and has had little dealings with officialdom or the law. Their understanding of the world hasn't altered since they were 8 despite that being sometime in the 1950's.

 

These are easily defeated. Polite and professional you should be, but don't waste too much energy. They will object all day long so long as it doesn't cost them anything beyond token money. They can't understand why they loose the objections and come to the conclusion the law is wrong and go back to bitching to their children and long suffering spouse as to why it's a disgrace and this country has gone down the pan.

 

 

Type 2. Patricia the power tripping Parish councilor. 

 

This person is a more worthy adversary, somewhat versed in the rules and regs and perhaps with access to the ear of those who make the decisions. They know everyone in the street, and the next two streets despite this often being a one way relationship. They harbour mild political ambitions but will never will pursue them, because they know that would mean dealing with the scruffs from the council estate rather than the more tasteful residents of "middle income crescent". Luckily for you the planners detest them, but being civil servants cannot ignore the points of local authority planning document A.1.6.7.3(d).6.iii that's being fingered under their nose by Patricia's wagging finger. Proceed with caution, get your good professional to dot the eyes and cross the tees. Smile, but I would shy away from engaging. Play their own game only mumbling vaguely about the "trusting the system to do its work" and " following the correct processes". Patricia will soon see what way the wind is blowing and pretend she was in favour all along, before diverting her valuable attention towards whatever cause for humanity affects the residents of "the crescent" next. 

 

Type 3. Charlie the Chancer.

 

A law whizz kid in his own eyes, well he would have been had it not been for they pesky law course kicking him out for plagiarism. He's had dreadful luck with trips slips and falls in the past few years, and despite just being an "honest bloke trying to make a living mate" ends up in court regularly on a no win no fee basis. The local Tesco defends a grape that causes him to tip over and suffer emotional damage needing 2 weeks in the Algarve to recuperate. He'll send you a very official and terrifying letter, crafted deep within the halls of "we've taken down governments" law halls. All your troubles would go away if you were willing to come to a financial accomodation regarding the development with him.  Pass it to your solicitor, who, if they're worth anything will send Charlie's letter on a one way trip to the bin. 

 

 

 

Enjoy the build as much as you can and keep us updated! Good luck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DarrenP]

9 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

you have a scumbag neighbor. Stop all appeasement it wont work as you have found out and just crack on. 

 

 

haha we have called them worse... they used to be nice till we got planning consent almost 3 years ago!

Seems trying to keep everyone happy doesn't work after all 

7 hours ago, Kelvin said:

Communication is definitely an art. Doing it via letters from a solicitor rarely works. The art in it is to always be shifting your tone words body language to match/mirror the other person, identify their primary concern, determine if it’s reasonable and come up with a mitigation. In your case I’d tell them to eff off. Show them your agreed planning consent and party wall agreement. Get on with your extension. Down the line your neighbour might soften or move or become more of an arse. Deal with that then. 

😂😂

 

7 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Welcome to BH.

 

There is another factor you may need to consider here. You are definitely in the right to crack although I do worry that the new single storey permission may have had some clause closing the previous two storey one. The additional factor is how long you intend to live in the property. When you come to sell it you will have to declare any issues you have had with neighbours, in England anyway. If only a few years after build this may put off purchasers who do not want to be landing in a still raw battle zone. 

Stop it i'm already depressed about it and that didn't help.. I had to double check they ( planning) have it down as an alternative not a change. I did get it in writing as well from them. As for how long there are some underlying factors which I can't go into but we should hopefully be there for a good 10 years.

 

6 hours ago, jack said:

 

100% this.

 

Stop wasting time and emotional energy negotiating with people who aren't negotiating in good faith.

 

Tell them politely but firmly what you're going to do, provide copies of the documents supporting your right to do it, and then crack on.

I'm all out of emotional energy! 

 

6 hours ago, Temp said:

 

Served or agreed? 

Both, and have it in writing from his solicitor that the PWA in September is for the first lot of planning permissions not the newer one. I pointed out as his client wasn't happy with either we decided to go with the first.

 

Just to add, one of the neighbours is a surveyor so has knowledge but seems to not use the knowledge for instance threatened the Right of Light act on me but failed to read his deeds.

 

Builders been and grubbed up the old conservatory block and foundations today, fingers crossed digger and foundations poured on Friday. Its been a long slog and wouldn't want to do it again.

 

I'll forward this thread to my builder for motivation