Sealing a problematic bath

[jayc89]

Our family bathroom as been a bone of contention for some time. It was originally a bedroom that we had converted 2 years ago, the original bathroom fitted went AWOL half way through the work, we had a tiler working elsewhere in the house at the time, he said he was previously a bathroom fitter and offered to help us out, he got it to a useable state then never came back to finish it off either (not finish the boxing in, fit the shower screen, seal around the toilet etc)...

The bath is fitted with textured stone-looking tiles around 3 side (bath's in a sort of alcove between the outside wall and airing cupboard), when doing work in the room below I found out it had been leaking, quite a bit, for some time.

 

Originally I thought it just needed resealing, so pulled off the old silicone to find a 15-20mm gap between the bottom of the tiles behind the taps and the bath, all new silicone was just falling through the gap.

 

I used some expanding foam from beneath to fill the gap and give the silicone something to hold onto. That seemed to do the trick, I ran the shower head around the joint between the bath and the tiles and happy days.

 

Fast forward a couple of days and one of the kiddy winks were in the shower whilst I was working in the room below, when I started to hear dripping again... The internal joint of the tiles between the wall at the back of the taps and the one running down the side of the bath was just grouted, no silicone, and the grout has all cracked (old house, tiled straight onto the external walls). I ran a bead of clear silicone down the internal joint, but water's still leaking from that corner of the bath. The bath's currently gobbed up to the high hills yet water's still managing to run down the back of it.

WTF's going on? Any thing obvious I should be checking? 

[ProDave]

Probably not what you want to hear, but before tiling the walls should have been built out so there was NOT that great big gap.

 

I had trouble with "porous" tiles in a previous house (I did not know when I bought them they were porous) that soaked up water around the edges and soaked right through the tile eventually they just fell off and got replaced with something non porous.

[Nickfromwales]

If you want to sort this properly, it’s tiles ALL off, bath out, walls sorted and a batten installed to accept the bath edges, bath back in, sealed before tiles, tiled, then silicones to finish. 
Anything else will fail again and again. 
Been here, got the T-shirt, made a LOT of money off insurance claims to put this exact thing right. 
 

Sort it now, as you’re just putting off the inevitable.

[jayc89]

10 hours ago, ProDave said:

Probably not what you want to hear, but before tiling the walls should have been built out so there was NOT that great big gap.

 

I had trouble with "porous" tiles in a previous house (I did not know when I bought them they were porous) that soaked up water around the edges and soaked right through the tile eventually they just fell off and got replaced with something non porous.

 

9 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

If you want to sort this properly, it’s tiles ALL off, bath out, walls sorted and a batten installed to accept the bath edges, bath back in, sealed before tiles, tiled, then silicones to finish. 
Anything else will fail again and again. 
Been here, got the T-shirt, made a LOT of money off insurance claims to put this exact thing right. 
 

Sort it now, as you’re just putting off the inevitable.

 

 

I suspected that I'd at least need to remove the bath to get this right, which isn't the end of the world because there's a 110mm and 40mm pipe penetration through the outside wall under there which isn't sealed and I can't reach it whilst the bath is in place.

 

I really don't fancy ripping tiles off though. It's the only functional bathroom we currently have, I don't have any spare tiles and given these ones are a couple of years old now, getting an exact match will be a PITA.

 

Is there any middle ground where I can get it good enough without having to re-tile?

(When I get around to our en-suite I plan on DIYing it so will make sure that's done properly from the start. )

Edited April 24, 2023 by jayc89

[Andehh]

Remove bath, clean existing tiles thoroughly, extend tiles down one layer lower (find mosaic pattern or something to create a feature line if ran out of tiles?), push bath against them, weight it down and resilicone? 

 

 

 

Is the bath adjustable? Can it be jacked up a few cm to reduce the tile gap?? 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Andehh

[Nickfromwales]

If it's tiled 3 sides around, how can you get it out?

[jayc89]

13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

If it's tiled 3 sides around, how can you get it out?

Good question. No idea. Given the gap’s larger than the thickness of 1x tile, I’m hoping it can be wiggled out.
 

I’m going to have to remove the toilet to get it out in any case. All work I could really do without.
 

Pay cheap, pay twice and all that 💣

[Nickfromwales]

52 minutes ago, jayc89 said:

Good question. No idea. Given the gap’s larger than the thickness of 1x tile, I’m hoping it can be wiggled out.

It’s this gap which needs to be eradicated, so if you’re thinking of doing this the easy way then it ain’t going to be any better than what you currently have.

You need to bite the bullet, see if you can find tiles, and do this properly or you’ll be doing all this work for absolutely no result whatsoever. And you’ll be doing it again every year. 
The opening needs to be reduced, so you’re into some building work. 
 

Do it once, do it  properly, get on with your life. 

[Temp]

The key to making sealer last is to stop all movement. If the bath moved when it's filled with water and you get in then the seal won't last. It doesn't have to move much. One reason for the suggestions above to fix a batten to the wall. 

 

Check the floor under the bath. Chipboard can bend or worse when wet. While the bath is out perhaps put a layer of WBP plywood down to stiffen and or repair it. 

 

Also make sure any adjustable metal legs are solid. Sometimes they use nuts which can come loose allowing the bath to move.

 

When you think it's rigid use a pencil to mark the top of the bath on the wall then fill it with water and stand in it. Does the top of the bath still line up with the pencil mark?

[jayc89]

The guy who originally fitted the bath did build some additional timber up stands for the side facing into the room. No timber down the back of the bath, behind the taps, and I'd need to check about the returning side that runs along the outside wall, I suspect not... 

I'm coming around to the realisation that I'm going to have to pull it out, unfortunately.

I have found a couple of spare packs of tiles in the garage. Do you think I can get away with just removing the bottom row and build it back up from there?

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, jayc89 said:

The guy who originally fitted the bath did build some additional timber up stands for the side facing into the room. No timber down the back of the bath, behind the taps, and I'd need to check about the returning side that runs along the outside wall, I suspect not... 

I'm coming around to the realisation that I'm going to have to pull it out, unfortunately.

I have found a couple of spare packs of tiles in the garage. Do you think I can get away with just removing the bottom row and build it back up from there?

Nope. Sorry. The opening needs to be reduced eg so the bath is touching against the untiled wall, sitting on battens which are smothered in CT1, and then the bath gets set into that, filled with water, then whilst everything is still wet you apply more CT1 down into the remainder of the gap and finish it flush with the topside of the bath. 
Leave for 24hrs, empty the bath, tile, wait 24hrs, fill the bath and grout. Leave 24hrs. 
Empty bath and silicone seal for cosmetics. CT1 does the fundamental sealing / leak proofing. 
 

Can you strip the tiles off the part side wall and leave the tap end and long side alone? 
Is the room tiled throughout? Or just around bath? 

[jayc89]

11 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Nope. Sorry. The opening needs to be reduced eg so the bath is touching against the untitled wall, siting on battens which are smothered in CT1, and then the bath gets set into that, filled with water, then whilst everything is still wet you apply more CT1 down into the remainder of the gap and finish it flush with the topside of the bath. 
Leave for 24hrs, empty the bath, tile, wait 24hrs, fill the bath and grout. Leave 24hrs. 
Empty bath and silicone seal for cosmetics. CT1 does the fundamental sealing / leak proofing. 
 

Can you strip the tiles off the part side wall and leave the tap end and long side alone? 
Is the room tiled throughout? Or just around bath? 

 

It's tiled throughout. Unfortunately this picture, that SWMBO took a while ago, is the best I have right now;

 

 

The side wall you can't see has the same textured tiles as the rest of the bath, I could potentially knock that off and build it back up again. There's tile trim on the external angle between that wall and the returning, smooth tiled, wall that you can see in the pic. 

[ProDave]

Move the bath towards the tap end so the there is no gap there.  That is where the shower is and most of the water.  This will make the gap bigger at the foot end and you will have to fill / bridge the gap somehow, but there will be very much less water there.

 

That's the best you will do without fixing it properly as advised above.

[TonyT]

Quadrant tile as a temp solution?

[jayc89]

2 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Quadrant tile as a temp solution?

 

I only remember them from Grandparents house and they looked terrible They might be a good option to allow me to forget about it for a few more months!

[Iceverge]

Here's a bit of a gash suggestion.

 

Fill the bath and cut and scrape out all the existing grout and silicone in place. 

 

Empty the bath. 

 

Take off the bath side cover. 

 

Cut battens to the right size for the width and length of the bath and push up from below as a dry fit. Make vertical supports to keep it pushed up against the base of the bath. These will ensure a tight fit. 

 

Next remove the dry fit batten and cover it in CT1 to seal the gap from below. Really heap it on there. Then push it up from below and wedge it there with the pre cut timbers. Put in a few screws to hold them in place if you can. 

 

Fill the bath. 

 

Apply as much CT1 as you can from above to meet that pushed up from below. 

 

Silicone later on. 

 

Beware it'll be tricky to put in the battens and potentially very messy with the CT1.

 

It might get you through to a proper job when you can retile. 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

4 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Here's a bit of a gash suggestion.

 

Fill the bath and cut and scrape out all the existing grout and silicone in place. 

 

Empty the bath. 

 

Take off the bath side cover. 

 

Cut battens to the right size for the width and length of the bath and push up from below as a dry fit. Make vertical supports to keep it pushed up against the base of the bath. These will ensure a tight fit. 

 

Next remove the dry fit batten and cover it in CT1 to seal the gap from below. Really heap it on there. Then push it up from below and wedge it there with the pre cut timbers. Put in a few screws to hold them in place if you can. 

 

Fill the bath. 

 

Apply as much CT1 as you can from above to meet that pushed up from below. 

 

Silicone later on. 

 

Beware it'll be tricky to put in the battens and potentially very messy with the CT1.

 

It might get you through to a proper job when you can retile. 

 

 

In a nutshell, exactly what I was thinking, just it's the kind of thing that will require skill, engineering and determination. Otherwise it's pointless adding crap on crap at cost.

 

Oh, and a lifetime supply of baby-wipes to get the CT1 off everything, including yourself!!  

[TonyT]

4 hours ago, jayc89 said:

 

I only remember them from Grandparents house and they looked terrible They might be a good option to allow me to forget about it for a few more months!

Yes was just Offering as a short term easy /easier fix 

[jayc89]

15 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Here's a bit of a gash suggestion.

 

Fill the bath and cut and scrape out all the existing grout and silicone in place. 

 

Empty the bath. 

 

Take off the bath side cover. 

 

Cut battens to the right size for the width and length of the bath and push up from below as a dry fit. Make vertical supports to keep it pushed up against the base of the bath. These will ensure a tight fit. 

 

Next remove the dry fit batten and cover it in CT1 to seal the gap from below. Really heap it on there. Then push it up from below and wedge it there with the pre cut timbers. Put in a few screws to hold them in place if you can. 

 

Fill the bath. 

 

Apply as much CT1 as you can from above to meet that pushed up from below. 

 

Silicone later on. 

 

Beware it'll be tricky to put in the battens and potentially very messy with the CT1.

 

It might get you through to a proper job when you can retile. 

 

 

 

CT 1 done. You're right, it was an absolute PITA. I'd need to be some sort of contortionist to be able to reach the far corner with ease. I hope I put enough in. I used 2x full tubes in all. I'll leave it to set today and hopefully tackle the silicone this evening's. 

 

Thanks again for the suggestion.

[Iceverge]

Hope it works. Our "plumbers" tossed the bath in from the far side of the room so I had to similar to ours. I didn't use any sealant however. 

 

I put a careful double layer of  (@Nickfromwales close your ears) airtightness tape around the bath perimeter. Onto the OSB on the wall. 

 

Ran the plastic bath panels down over it and siliconed it to finish. A bit gash but no leaks after 2 years. Not a reccomended method I'm sure but I was completely burnt out at the time and just wanted it done. 

 

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Hope it works. Our "plumbers" tossed the bath in from the far side of the room so I had to similar to ours. I didn't use any sealant however. 

 

I put a careful double layer of  (@Nickfromwales close your ears) airtightness tape around the bath perimeter. Onto the OSB on the wall. 

 

Ran the plastic bath panels down over it and siliconed it to finish. A bit gash but no leaks after 2 years. Not a reccomended method I'm sure but I was completely burnt out at the time and just wanted it done. 

 

You........did.........WHAT!? 😱

[jayc89]

Ever seen any of the SkillBuilder videos on YouTube? They did a bathroom build and used some sort of tape to seal the bath to the tile backer board - looks like it was sponsored by Abacus Bathrooms as everything was their stuff. Probably not airtight tape, but it's the first time I've seen that done. 

[Big Jimbo]

@jayc89, Aquastrap is the stuff you are thinking of. I used it on One bath and 6 showers 9 years ago, and never had a leak since.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Nickfromwales
Added member tag

[Nickfromwales]

43 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Aquastrap jayc89 is the stuff you are thinking of. I used it on One bath and 6 showers 9 years ago, and never had a leak since.

@Big Jimbo to tag a member ( as I've done and you see it in a blue bubble ) just type an @ sign and then ( no spaces ) the first couple of letters of their username. Select from the drop down box as it appears.  

The member will get a notification that you have "mentioned them" in a post too. .

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, jayc89 said:

Ever seen any of the SkillBuilder videos on YouTube? They did a bathroom build and used some sort of tape to seal the bath to the tile backer board - looks like it was sponsored by Abacus Bathrooms as everything was their stuff. Probably not airtight tape, but it's the first time I've seen that done. 

Yup. I've seen the tape systems, but if you are tiling then you either need these applied to the rear surface of the item that is to be sealed and then to offer that back to the wall ( or often walls ) which is a PITA. I've been fitting  bathrooms for over 25 years, prob a bit more tbh, and good old sealant and tanking wins every time for me.

A lot of stuff on YT is promotional / sponsored / non-impartial. I get quite fed up with some of the vid's, so rarely go on it tbh.