Design and build turnkey options

[Furnace]

7 hours ago, Katie AG said:

Thanks. I think MBC are coming our tops from my desk research. 
many idea on cost per sqm on their turnkey stuff

My quote is around £530/m² for the shell only and £725/m² including foundations. I'm in the South East

 

[Seren161]

Welcome @Katie AG

Really useful thread this.. I think the advice about not rushing is super important and also trying to get some individuality into your build.

Fabric first approach can give the really low running costs that ease your day to day and the payoff lasts.

Planning permission is sometimes not the wrestling match you anticipate so push the boat out a little and you may be pleasantly surprised especially if you are able to get a design that maximises solar gain.

We built with a local builder and it was a bog standard brick and block construction. Final cost per square metre for a medium to high spec was about £1750 to £1800 so not bad, but there were definite compromises in terms of the build speed and the airtightness of the building fabric as well as the fact that when you aren’t building it yourself you are powerless to control certain aspects of the build. And this can be extremely frustrating. 

You will know what matters the most to you and the more research you do the clearer what you want should hopefully be. 

Bridging loans are only suited to very limited situations… would require very careful consideration and professional assessment of your financial situation.

[Bournbrook]

Thanks all. Definitely not rushing. We have 4 years to actually move in as that’s when our current fixed rate mortgage deal ends. 
 

I have attached a proposed site plan I created to go to preplanning with. Any thought on shape, position welcome. Worth noting that the NE corner has a tree with TPO and the ground raises quite a bit at this point. Will attach photo out of current back window to show site (separate post due to file size)

[Bournbrook]

[Bournbrook]

Just now, Katie AG said:

The new plot would start about where back of garage is

[Post and beam]

On 18/04/2023 at 21:18, Katie AG said:

currently looking to build a singe storey dwelling in our back garden (around 130sqm). 
 

We have a young family and both work full time so realistically need to use some kind of turnkey service, even though it will cost a lot more!

Potton Homes do single storey as well. You could choose straight from the brochure, or modify one of theirs. We did this with a 2 storey version. Or take them a design and they will do their thing. But why pay for a design elsewhere and then pay again for Potton to modify. Just sketch what you want and show them.

[Iceverge]

hi @Katie AG,

 

What's the driving motivation behind building a new house?

 

Accessibility? Desire to self build? Live somewhere of high thermal comfort? Lower running costs? 

 

What is your current house not doing well for you?

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Katie AG said:

Worth noting that the NE corner has a tree with TPO

That is good, won't affect PV generation.

[Bournbrook]

11 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

hi @Katie AG,

 

What's the driving motivation behind building a new house?

 

Accessibility? Desire to self build? Live somewhere of high thermal comfort? Lower running costs? 

 

What is your current house not doing well for you?

 

 

 

Mainly financial but also living sustainably. 
in 4 years time when our fixed rate ends, who knows what interest rates will be doing but it’s likely they’ll be higher than what we’ve fixed at (1.82%). We could afford it but would mean taking overtime and we now have 2 kids and would much prefer to be able to work less and enjoy time with them more. 
we would hugely miss our house but 2 things we would hope to improve on are

- connecting the house to the garden more

- cheaper running costs

[Iceverge]

Caution on the financial aspect unless you are downsizing. It's tricky for a self builder to come out better off on a house build Vs just selling the site. 

 

You've done well with your mortgage rate but I've heard 4-5% being more likely the norm until the end of the decade.  Wages will have to rise significantly to accommodate this however because too many people would be out of a home otherwise, basically if you can afford your house now, I'd say it'd be a fair bet to say you could afford it in 4 years time. 

 

Have you looked at an upgrade to the fabric of your current house to counter the running costs? Many members here have done amazing things with their older places. Similarly an extra french door somewhere may be enough to help you get in touch with the garden. 

 

Halving your garden to do a self build may not be the only way forward. 

 

[Bournbrook]

19 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Caution on the financial aspect unless you are downsizing. It's tricky for a self builder to come out better off on a house build Vs just selling the site. 

 

You've done well with your mortgage rate but I've heard 4-5% being more lightly the norm until the end of the decade.  Wages will have to rise significantly to accommodate this however because too many people would be out of a home otherwise, basically if you can afford your house now, I'd say it'd be a fair bet to say you could afford it in 4 years time. 

 

Have you looked at an upgrade to the fabric of your current house to counter the running costs? Many members here have done amazing things with their older places. Similarly an extra french door somewhere may be enough to help you get in touch with the garden. 

 

Halfing your garden to do a self build may not be the only way forward. 

 

I get your point, but if we self build we could be mortgage free. That’s the aim really. 
 

updating our current house would cost even more money (that we don’t have) and if we were to borrow more to do this our mortgage would increase even more. 
 

the most financially savvy thing to do (based on estate agent advice) is to split the plot and sell them separately (with pp for garden). However, we really love our location and our priority is to stay in our village. The housing stock in our village isn’t great so we feel this is the most affordable way of staying where we live and being mortgage free

[Bournbrook]

I should also add that we are both public sector workers so our pay is not going up (despite what the media seems to show)

[Furnace]

15 hours ago, Katie AG said:

I get your point, but if we self build we could be mortgage free. That’s the aim really.

If mortgage-free living is a primary goal, then a tight rein on costs will be needed. The alternative, as the estate agent has said, is to apply for planning, sell your current house and the extra plot and use the proceeds to buy a ready made home you like. I wouldn't underestimate the time and aggro that a self-build involves - you'll be doing pretty much the same (non physical) work to build 1 house as a developer would do to build 10. Plots with planning do seem to fetch prices that leave little, if any, margin for profit.
It's worth reflecting on all these things prior to digging holes - changing your mind after that point becomes expensive.
Bonne chance

 

[Nickfromwales]

41 minutes ago, Furnace said:

I wouldn't underestimate the time and aggro that a self-build involves - you'll be doing pretty much the same (non physical) work to build 1 house as a developer would do to build 10

I think it would be less if they went turnkey foundation / frame in actuality. This often includes B-Regs and SE content up to the point where the finished article is presented and the provider disengages.  Doors and windows next, then roofer and external rain-screen, and you're then stood inside with a set of keys in your hand.

After that it's electrician / plumber / plasterboard / plaster / kitchen / bathroom / final hard finishes and that's deliverable by a good local builder with relative ease, or it is easily within the reach of someone who feels confident to engage with these trades independently.

There's bucket-loads of info on Buildhub that can be mined over the next 4 years. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to not plan ahead and make this a smooth project.

Time, knowledge, confidence and budget need to be realised and realistically too, before deciding to proceed.

[Furnace]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

I think it would be less if they went turnkey foundation / frame in actuality

Yes of course. I'd missed that crucial piece of info 🙄
 

[Bournbrook]

44 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I think it would be less if they went turnkey foundation / frame in actuality. This often includes B-Regs and SE content up to the point where the finished article is presented and the provider disengages.  Doors and windows next, then roofer and external rain-screen, and you're then stood inside with a set of keys in your hand.

After that it's electrician / plumber / plasterboard / plaster / kitchen / bathroom / final hard finishes and that's deliverable by a good local builder with relative ease, or it is easily within the reach of someone who feels confident to engage with these trades independently.

There's bucket-loads of info on Buildhub that can be mined over the next 4 years. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to not plan ahead and make this a smooth project.

Time, knowledge, confidence and budget need to be realised and realistically too, before deciding to proceed.

Thanks. This is basically exactly what I am trying to do - plan well in advance and avoid potential pitfalls. Also work out if this is actually realistic!

 

if we just sold up and moved, we would be leaving a house we love and there is very little that comes on the market in this area. That’s why self build seems to be the best option, but I want to make sure I’ve considered everything. 
 

so far (from lots on info mining on here) and advice from architects, mortgage brokers etc I am thinking the following:

 

- get pre-planning advice to see if there are any complete deal breakers (submitted request yesterday)

 

- if all seems like it could work, get an architect to draw up some initial designs to make the best of plot and see that we could build something that would suit our family

 

- go to planning either through architect or through taking initial designs to a turnkey design and build company 

 

- if we get planning then sort how to finance. Looking like some kind of second mortgage but would need to split deeds (will seek legal advice at this stage)

 

- explore turnkey options through companies such as MBC, potton, HebHomes, Danwood etc and also through main contractors. 
 

- get building regs and SE stuff either via architect or company we choose. 
 

- possibly delay build for a year or 2 until interest rates go down/ house prices go up. 
 

- get house to point we could live in it, even if not fully complete and sell main house. Release funds to complete the finishes. This would be planned in from the start. 
 

- live in house whilst completing the final parts. 
 

any thoughts on this would be really appreciated!!

 

 

[Bournbrook]

Oh and just to add, the absolute total budget for everything ( including contingency) would be 450k, but some of that would need to be released after sale of main house. Would be interested to know what sort of things could be done whilst living in the house- external cladding, landscaping, flooring, a bathroom etc. 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Time, knowledge, confidence and budget need to be realised and realistically too, before deciding to proceed.

I think if there was a survey, almost every self builder on BH would report going over budget.

There are always surprises, and very few of these can ever be good.

So allow a substantial contingency on any figures you are quoted.

 

Staying in the village is a very good reason for proceeding. Making money is not, unless you will manage the process closely, know (or learn) a lot about construction, and include a lot of diy.

 

But get it right and your house will be just what you want, and to a high standard.

 

Let's get rid of one risk. What type of tree is it, and what is the ground type?

[saveasteading]

1 minute ago, Katie AG said:

external cladding, landscaping, flooring, a bathroom etc. 

Correct. Once the structure is up, with vapour layer on, the shell is dry. So you can even add roof finishes to the list. 

Be aware though that all the trades will be slower, and more expensive, if constrained by partial occupation.

[Bournbrook]

11 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I think if there was a survey, almost every self builder on BH would report going over budget.

There are always surprises, and very few of these can ever be good.

So allow a substantial contingfncy on any figurres you are quoted.

 

Staying in the village is a very good reason for proceeding. Making money is not, unless you will manage the process closely, know (or learn) a lot about construction, and include a lot of diy.

 

But get it right and your house will be just what you want, and to a high standard.

 

Let's get rid of one risk. What type of tree is it, and what is the ground type?

Thanks for advice. I had definitely thought about contingency. Is the amount lessened when dealing with a fixed price main contractor or turnkey service?

 

tree is a sycamore and it’s sandstone

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Furnace said:

Yes of course. I'd missed that crucial piece of info 🙄
 

Naughty step for 15, please 👉

[Nickfromwales]

15 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Be aware though that all the trades will be slower, and more expensive, if constrained by partial occupation.

This is often a project killer.

PLEASE, do NOT move in until all of your trades have completed and left, as this would slow them down, alienate them, and likely increase frequency of visits, costs, and reduce the amount of work they can do in the same day ( vs unoccupied ). 

 

Wise words.

 

Especially if children are in the mix!! Could work for a retired couple, but still a huge PITA for everyone. Plan this to be finished, paint dry, and then move in.

[Bournbrook]

3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

This is often a project killer.

PLEASE, do NOT move in until all of your trades have completed and left, as this would slow them down, alienate them, and likely increase frequency of visits, costs, and reduce the amount of work they can do in the same day ( vs unoccupied ). 

 

Wise words.

Yes, I had worried about this. If we time it right, we could move out to my parents for a couple of months to get the last bit completed. 

[Iceverge]

2 minutes ago, Katie AG said:

Yes, I had worried about this. If we time it right, we could move out to my parents for a couple of months to get the last bit completed. 

I would rather live in the site skip and I get on quite well with my parents and in-laws. 

[ProDave]

35 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I think if there was a survey, almost every self builder on BH would report going over budget.

There are always surprises, and very few of these can ever be good.

So allow a substantial contingfncy on any figurres you are quoted.

 

Staying in the village is a very good reason for proceeding. Making money is not, unless you will manage the process closely, know (or learn) a lot about construction, and include a lot of diy.

 

But get it right and your house will be just what you want, and to a high standard.

To add to that my experiences.  We had built our first self build 20 years ago now a 5 bedroom house that we had run as a B&B we wanted to downsize towards retirement.  Hoping to release some capital in that process.

 

We were lucky to be able to purchase a plot 100 metres from our old house so it was then a no brainer to self build our new house.  this time we wanted much better insulation, air tightness etc and lower heating bills etc.  As it happens the new smaller house was 150 square metres compared to 190 for the old house so not that much smaller.

 

We hit financial problems right at the start, with the old house not selling and the prospect of having to drop the price to get a sale, there was the real danger of the new smaller house costing more to build than the sale price of the old bigger house and paying to downsize was intolerable.

 

Plans changed to let the old house, and complete the build almost 100% DIY which turned into a 6 year "build as you earn" financed mostly from the rental income from the old house.

 

Not sure what I am saying here other than for self build you have to really want to do it, and be flexible to adjust to circumstances that WILL change as the build progresses.

 

Very happy with the results, but it took a lot longer and was a lot more work than originally planned.  The financial outcome will ultimately be positive, but in our case only because of all the rental income, and the resultant delay in selling the old house to it has increased in value.