3 phase connection DNO issues

[Canski]

Hi all,

 

Last year it took me several months to get a quote from my DNO who I was told was the only organisation that I could use to provide electric and gas connections to my site. The quotes eventually came back for single phase and when I questioned them (after another couple of months delay) they  sent back quotes for 3 phase but including aa temporary supply that I don't want. When I attempted to strip this down to what I did want and waited another month or so they came back with a reasonable quote but I was held up with bats and planning so couldn't proceed.

 

Now I'm ready so I have asked them to re quote but now they can't find my previous quotes so I have sent them over to them.

 

However, now they are saying that I can approach an Independent Connection Provider and have sent a list of 370 ICP's who would have the unfortunate task of having to deal with my DNO.

 

My question is what am I looking for in a ICP and does anyone have any recommendations ?

[Kelvin]

I dealt direct with SSE and it was painless. Presumably you pay a fee to these organisations. I’d find out how much that typically is. My guess is that once you approve the work direct with the DNO it’ll be relatively straightforward so I’d do it all myself. 

[Canski]

This gets better .......

 

Now I'm nearly ready to go once my birds have departed I thought I would get an updated service connection quote for the 2 houses on our site. I just spoke to the DNO and they say that they have had quotes back and one was £20 k for the 2 properties. Last year they quoted £4200 this is for 2 x 3 phase connections. How can they be this far apart. They said they are waiting for one more quote to come back but FFS that is extortion.

[Canski]

So the quotes have finally come back to me from the DNO I am absolutely flabbergasted. 

 

Last year the quote for 2 x 3 phase was £4200 now it is £14017

 

Last year the quote for 2 x single phase was £ 2012 now it is £12017

 

Last year the quote for 2 x  gas was £1770 now it is £12518

 

Is there anything that I can do ? 

 

[TonyT]

Find out what size of supply you need  and they quoted for and see who else will price based on the same info.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by TonyT

[Canski]

19 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Find out what size of supply you need  and they quoted for and see who else will price based on the same info.

 

 

This was the quote. 2 Nr plots with 9 KW ASHP & 1 car charger each with the provision for 2 more. Have I cocked it up ?

Screenshot 2023-06-02 at 17.22.13.pdf

Edited June 2, 2023 by Canski

[Canski]

DNO Ransom Letter.pdfI even cocked the attachment up. I think at the moment there is only one solution and that is to drink heavily.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Canski
trying to drop a PDF that can be viewed

[Mr Blobby]

1 hour ago, Canski said:

This was the quote. 2 Nr plots with 9 KW ASHP & 1 car charger each with the provision for 2 more. Have I cocked it up ?

Screenshot 2023-06-02 at 17.22.13.pdf 230.84 kB · 8 downloads

 

Is that 100 amp per phase per property you are requesting?  That seems like an awful lot if it is. 

When I first enquired about our 3-phase connection last year the DNO told me there is a threshold that I should not exceed in my request.  I forget what it is now, but I'm pretty sure it was less that 100 amp per phase.  Maybe talk to your DNO about resubmitting your application with, say, 79 Amps per phase.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Mr Blobby

[Canski]

13 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

 

Is that 100 amp per phase?  That's an awful lot if it is.

I don't know, this is all that they have sent me. I don't understand electricity because I can't see it. What would be normal for a 4 bed  house with ASHP and 3 car chargers ?

[Mr Blobby]

53 minutes ago, Canski said:

I don't know, this is all that they have sent me. I don't understand electricity because I can't see it. What would be normal for a 4 bed  house with ASHP and 3 car chargers ?

 

Good question!

 

I dug out our old quote and it was for 30 kVA so by my maths thats 75 Amp per phase.  I think this is just below the threshold at which NIE tut and shake their head.

 

It is unlikely you will be charging three cars at 32A simultaneausly and even if you were then chargers like ZAPPI and the Tesla wall chargers can do load balancing to make sure you don't exceed you grid supply limit.

 

Without load balancing you could do something simple like 1 charger 3-phase 16 amp, 2 at 32 amp single (different) phase so that would be a maximum load of 48 amp on two phases and the remaing phase with 16 amps demand from the charger could go to the ASHP and the hobs and stuff and still not exceed 75A.  But then reducing to 75 Amps may make no difference to your quote in your circumstances, but worth checking with your DNO just in case.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Mr Blobby

[Marvin]

49 minutes ago, Canski said:

I don't understand electricity because I can't see it.

Do you understand gravity? 🤣🤣🤣

[Canski]

16 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Do you understand gravity? 🤣🤣🤣

 

17 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

 

Good question!

 

I dug out our old quote and it was for 30 kVA so by my maths thats 75 Amp per phase.  I think this is just below the threshold at which NIE tut and shake their head.

 

It is unlikely you will be charging three cars at 32A simultaneausly and even if you were then chargers like ZAPPI and the Tesla wall chargers can do load balancing to make sure you don't exceed you grid supply limit.

 

Without load balancing you could do something simple like 1 charger 3-phase 16 amp, 2 at 32 amp single (different) phase so that would be a maximum load of 48 amp on two phases and the remaing phase with 16 amps demand from the charger could go to the ASHP and the hobs and stuff and still not exceed 75A.  But then reducing to 75 Amps may make no difference to your quote in your circumstances, but worth checking with your DNO just in case.

 

 

Thanks for that I’ll have another word with them. The thing is they’ lost’ the original quote and asked me to resubmit my application. I just sent them the previous one so they should have been quoting like for like. 

[Canski]

18 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Do you understand gravity? 🤣🤣🤣

Oh yes ! What goes up should come down. This is the wrong way round. 

[crispy_wafer]

At that price, I'd be looking to go off-grid. 

 

Seriously though, if you have a contact give them a bell and ask what if anything can be done to get the price down, sure there will be costs for the footpath and highway that probably cant and wont change but mention a lower amp supply and see if that alters the cost.  Up here they wont give anything other than 80A per phase, so maybe 100A per phase requires twiddling at their equipment which you are paying for.  Fingers crossed it's a simple as that.

[Linto]

3 car chargers seems excessive per home. Unless the owners are driving all 3 >200 miles each day then they won't need to charge them all at the same time. One would probably be enough, two at most.

[Canski]

6 minutes ago, Linto said:

3 car chargers seems excessive per home. Unless the owners are driving all 3 >200 miles each day then they won't need to charge them all at the same time. One would probably be enough, two at most.

Yes it is but it’s a planning condition. 1 fitted and cabling provision for 2 more. 

[Canski]

23 minutes ago, crispy_wafer said:

At that price, I'd be looking to go off-grid. 

 

Seriously though, if you have a contact give them a bell and ask what if anything can be done to get the price down, sure there will be costs for the footpath and highway that probably cant and wont change but mention a lower amp supply and see if that alters the cost.  Up here they wont give anything other than 80A per phase, so maybe 100A per phase requires twiddling at their equipment which you are paying for.  Fingers crossed it's a simple as that.

Thanks I’ll try but they are not very communicative. Like I said 6 months for the first quote. 

[TonyT]

Did they specify a type of charger?

 

 

[dpmiller]

9 hours ago, TonyT said:

Did they specify a type of charger?

 

 

this.

a car will charge off a 13A outside socket...

[Canski]

This is what was on the application form. Is this correct ? remember this is for 2 properties. One for me one for my friend. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Canski

[ProDave]

So you are asking for 200KVA total capacity, 100KVA per house.  At 3 phase that is 100A per phase.  That's 3 times the maximum that most UK houses have.

 

WHAT was on the quote from 2 years ago?

 

Re car chargers, you need supply capacity for ONE per house.  The fact you may install cable for more is irelevant.

 

To out this into contect my house has a 12KVA supply and everything works fine.

[TonyT]

1 hour ago, dpmiller said:

this.

a car will charge off a 13A outside socket...

That’s where I was going with that …..

you put a socket and put a labke on it saying EV charging point.  Bingo. 

[TonyT]

Christ, the DNO allow approx 3.5kW per house that enough for a whole estate based in their diversity calculations 

[Canski]

10 hours ago, ProDave said:

So you are asking for 200KVA total capacity, 100KVA per house.  At 3 phase that is 100A per phase.  That's 3 times the maximum that most UK houses have.

 

WHAT was on the quote from 2 years ago?

 

Re car chargers, you need supply capacity for ONE per house.  The fact you may install cable for more is irelevant.

 

To out this into contect my house has a 12KVA supply and everything works fine.

I resent the original application form because they had ‘lost’ it. 

[TonyT]

You need to decide if you want single or 3 phase supply and then work out from there.

a 7kW charger can put a lot of juice into a car, again so can a 13 amp plug and socket arrangement depending on your travelling requirements, so only you know what’s good for you.

 

Gas/oil heating or ASHP/GSHP.

work on your m&e design