New diesel and petrol vehicles to be banned from 2040

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Ok CJ-Lithium then.... not quite star trek!

Hansom my lover.

[AliG]

I have joined the electric revolution.

 

Just picked up my Model X. So smooth, absolutely lovely.

 

I had to put it in "chill" mode as they are scarily fast.

[lizzie]

On 09/12/2017 at 16:38, AliG said:

I have joined the electric revolution.

 

Just picked up my Model X. So smooth, absolutely lovely.

 

I had to put it in "chill" mode as they are scarily fast.

My friend has recently got one of these, impressive vehicle she is very pleased. Lots of girl envy here.

 

I have a friend in usa who worked on the development of these with Tesla, he was poached by apple last year for an unamed project.....

 

Mere mortal with an empty bank account as we near the end of the build I am looking at hybrids. Any views on Kia Nero, had a test drive today not speedy but might suit my needs. I dont need fast OH drives a Porsche that does for the speed in our house.LOL

[Bitpipe]

On 09/12/2017 at 16:38, AliG said:

I have joined the electric revolution.

 

Just picked up my Model X. So smooth, absolutely lovely.

 

I had to put it in "chill" mode as they are scarily fast.

 

What spec did you go for?  My boss in US has a S with ludicrous mode and it is like that ride in Thorpe Park.

 

Tesla still out of my league financially at present as all remaining funds are for finishing the landscaping, gates etc. That said, I was looking at the Audi Q7 etron and there's not much between them cost wise when spec'd up. Current A6 is limping along (10 years old) practically worthless now so eyeing the diesel trade in deals and the electric incentives.

 

Nothing grabbing me really, would be interested in a Q5 sized car but that's still a year away at least I think.

 

[AliG]

I have a Model X75D. Most of our driving is in town so range is not a big deal.

 

We are between houses at the moment so we are using a Tesla Supercharger for charging. If you don’t have a garage you can put it in to charge or at least a driveway I would think seriously about it. In winter the range is hammered by heating the battery if it gets cold.

 

The practical range of a X75 in winter is probably around 140 miles. A X100 around 175 I would guess. In summer the range will rise to 190  and 230ish.

 

I do not think the extra range is worth the extra 20K on a 100. Other than the range there is no other difference.

 

The 75 gets to 60 in 4.9 seconds and the 100 in 4.7. It is already scarily fast for such a large car. The P is a waste of money as you cannot use the performance.

 

I waited for the 7 seater with folding seats. It made an excellent people carrier for 7 people over Christmas. The Q7 etron loses the 7 seat option. Other than that the Q7 is a lovely car to drive but I would probably stick with the diesel.

 

I would expect Tesla to put a price cut through soon if the Pound stays strong.

 

We have all the options except full set driving as that does not exist. A surprising number of features that are extras on other cars are standard such as soft close doors and self parking. The self parking is fantastic. It needs the autopilot option.

 

I bought it on a PCP. Normally I pay cash but they guarantee you 49% if the new price after 4 years including for the options which otherwise would depreciate more. This reduces the risk that a better car makes it obsolete.

 

If you want something smaller you will have the I-Pace or E-Tron both of which look nice but that is probably next year.

 

We has a Range Rover Sport before which is a lovely car. This is better and not much more expensive. 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

Other than the range there is no other difference.

Didn't Tesla up the range of the cheapo 60 when that hurricane hit Florida last year, cause they had the large battery pack in anyway.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/10/16283330/tesla-hurricane-irma-update-florida-extend-range-model-s-x-60-60d

[AliG]

Originally there was a Model X60 which was cheaper. It had the same battery as a X75 but the last 20% was locked out. They stopped selling these after a couple of months as to give people 15kWH of battery which is the most expensive part of the car without charging for it kills margins.

 

Now you get a 75 or a 100. Until a few months ago 0-60 on the 75 was 6 seconds compared to 4.9 on the 100. So the 100 was faster as well as having more range. Now the 75 has almost the same performance and I think the extra range is overpriced.

 

When you look at the price of a Tesla you have to consider what you’d have to buy to get similar  performance. You’re talking a 14mpg Range River Sport V8 supercharged or the V8 diesel Audi SQ7. These are a very similar price. TBH though no one needs such a fast big family car.

 

The first Model Xs from 2016 and early 2017 are a lot less well built and noisier. Mine is much quieter. A friend has an older one with a lot of wind noise.

 

Our RR Sport was very refined but the new Q7 is quieter again. It is an incredibly comfortable and refined car. It is a shame it looks so dull. But it a great family car. One reason I changed was the RR was a little short on space. It was 4.8m long versus 5.05m on the Audi or Tesla. Adults can easily sit in the third row of the Tesla. 

 

I also test drove the new Discovery. It has a lovely interior and lots of space. However it is the slowest car you can buy for 60K by a long way. Range Rover now systemically lie about their car’s performance. They are generally somewhat heavier and slower than quoted. They quote 0-60 in about 8 seconds but it is closer to 9 for the V6 diesel. It felt incredibly slow. I know people here will say that’s fast enough but a 60K car should not have the performance of a 22K Golf. It also handled like a boat. Basically the 2.5 tonne weight catches up with it. The Audi weighs just 2 tonnes and it shows.

 

I’d def recommend the Model X if you have appropriate charging facilities.

 

Id also mention it’s enormous. As well as being very long I think it’s slightly wider than the RR a car already wider than a Transit. If you regularly park in a tight multi story for example cars this size are a total non starter. There are spaces it literally hangs out of on all sides. I don’t find it an issue but it’s worth mentioning

Edited January 27, 2018 by AliG

[AliG]

I also test drove a Volvo XC90 T8 plug in hybrid.

 

Unlike a Q7 it is available with 7 seats as a hybrid.

 

However, I instantly dismissed it as the least nice of all these cars. It has a nice interior, but just feels like a cheaper car. Partly it is the lack of 6 cylinder engine, but also if you look around the bottom of the inside of the car it has lots of hard plastics. It also has more road noise particularly if it does not have air suspension.

 

I have a spreadsheet where I calculated the fixed cost of all these cars looking at discounts available and depreciation. The Tesla is about 11k a year to run, offset by saving around £100 per thousand miles driven on fuel relative to a big diesel SUV. Tesla's are very expensive to insure due to high repair costs, but everything is insignificant really versus the depreciation. An Audi Q7 diesel would be around £8000 a year. A Q7 E-Tron costs £10,000 more than a diesel, this seems like very poor value and I suspect that you would lose the whole amount over 3 years so its running cost would be closer to the Tesla's.

 

 

 

 

[Oz07]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

I also test drove a Volvo XC90 T8 plug in hybrid.

 

Unlike a Q7 it is available with 7 seats as a hybrid.

 

However, I instantly dismissed it as the least nice of all these cars. It has a nice interior, but just feels like a cheaper car. Partly it is the lack of 6 cylinder engine, but also if you look around the bottom of the inside of the car it has lots of hard plastics. It also has more road noise particularly if it does not have air suspension.

 

I have a spreadsheet where I calculated the fixed cost of all these cars looking at discounts available and depreciation. The Tesla is about 11k a year to run, offset by saving around £100 per thousand miles driven on fuel relative to a big diesel SUV. Tesla's are very expensive to insure due to high repair costs, but everything is insignificant really versus the depreciation. An Audi Q7 diesel would be around £8000 a year. A Q7 E-Tron costs £10,000 more than a diesel, this seems like very poor value and I suspect that you would lose the whole amount over 3 years so its running cost would be closer to the Tesla's.

 

 

 

 

I've heard something about the teslas being tax efficient though. Something about buying through your company and perhaps benefit in kind tax being lower? Also vat back? Can't remember exactly 

[lizzie]

As I am only doing about 8k a year now, dont need such a big car anymore and we have a Porsche for the petrol head think I'm going for the Kia Niro, good for shopping and the dog.

[AliG]

2 hours ago, Oz07 said:

I've heard something about the teslas being tax efficient though. Something about buying through your company and perhaps benefit in kind tax being lower? Also vat back? Can't remember exactly 

 

There are indeed big tax breaks for buying electric and plug in hybrids as company cars.

[Bitpipe]

12 hours ago, AliG said:

 

There are indeed big tax breaks for buying electric and plug in hybrids as company cars.

 

Having just created a Ltd co for contracting, this is where I'm interested.

 

If you own your own company it does not normally make sense for your company to buy a car and give it to you as the employee as a company car, as you (the employee) will need to pay benefit in kind (BiK) tax, normally 20%ish of the book value of the car.

 

There is a scheme though for ULEV cars whereby you can write the cost of the car off against company profit, works for PHP as well as outright purchase. That saves 20%. The BiK are also lower but they  have been increased recently which removes some of the benefit.

 

2017/18 9%

2018/19 13%

2019/20 16%

2020/21  2%

 

5. Salary sacrifice for the provision of benefit in kind

5.1 ULEVs are eligible for tax benefits if purchased through a salary sacrifice agreement made between an employer and employee, where the employee's cash remuneration is reduced in exchange for an equivalent BIK (as explained in Section 4). Due to the reduction in pay, this results in a reduced income tax liability for the employee and reduced national insurance liability for both parties.

5.2 Due to their wider societal benefits, ULEVs were exempted from the reforms announced in the Autumn Statement 2016 to remove the income tax and employer NICs advantages resulting from such schemes, whereby the taxable value of the BIKs provided through salary sacrifice is fixed at the higher of the amount of cash forgone or the amount calculated under the existing BIK rules.

 

This is also interesting

 

6.4 As electricity is not a road fuel, the car fuel benefit charge does not apply to electric charging. If an employee uses a company car, no BIK arises on charging their vehicle at the workplace.

6.5 If an employer provides electricity to an employee to charge their own car, a BIK arises representing the cost of the electricity used, which must be reported to HMRC. The government announced at Autumn Budget 2017 that employer-provided electricity, provided from workplace charging points for charging electric cars, will be exempt from being taxed as a BIK from April 2018.

6.6 The provision by an employer of a chargepoint for an employee at their home also gives rise to a BIK.

6.7 An online tool for calculating whether tax is due in relation to the charging of an electric car is available here: www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-electric-company-cars. The government recognises that this is a developing area and keeps the tax rules under review at fiscal events to ensure that they remain effective in promoting take up of cleaner cars but are also consistent with the government’s wider fiscal objectives.

[Crofter]

On 1/28/2018 at 17:34, AliG said:

I have a spreadsheet where I calculated the fixed cost of all these cars looking at discounts available and depreciation. The Tesla is about 11k a year to run, offset by saving around £100 per thousand miles driven on fuel relative to a big diesel SUV. Tesla's are very expensive to insure due to high repair costs, but everything is insignificant really versus the depreciation. An Audi Q7 diesel would be around £8000 a year. A Q7 E-Tron costs £10,000 more than a diesel, this seems like very poor value and I suspect that you would lose the whole amount over 3 years so its running cost would be closer to the Tesla's.

 

 

 

 

Holey moley it's another world out there.

I consider £1000/yr an acceptable cost for a car, to cover say 6k miles.

I can see why Tesla had to go for the top end of the market first, though, to become established. Here's hoping that the Model 3 production bugs will be ironed out and they will start becoming an option for more people (like me!)