eandg Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Looking at the Buildings Regs (for Scotland) and our Building Warrant it looks like we only need 25mm at 10kg/m3 in the studs, though we'll go to 50mm. Query I have is about stud walls with a door in them - I can't see anything in either doc noting exemptions but from reading some stuff online it suggests that sound insulation may not be required (or is of limited value) in walls where there is a door. So questions are 1) is it required? and 2) if not, and of limited value, is going any more than the bare minimum 25mm of any particular value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 hours ago, eandg said: is going any more than the bare minimum 25mm of any particular value? It'll be of value to yourselves, as occupants. Just remember that our B.Regs in this country are absolute and total dog shite, so attaining the minimum of the minimum will yield.......... ( drumroll please ) ..........even shitter results. If this is your house, and you don't want to pull the boards back off afterwards, because the house has issues with acoustic transparency, then do it right, once, and put the thicker stuff in now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: It'll be of value to yourselves, as occupants. Just remember that our B.Regs in this country are absolute and total dog shite, so attaining the minimum of the minimum will yield.......... ( drumroll please ) ..........even shitter results. If this is your house, and you don't want to pull the boards back off afterwards, because the house has issues with acoustic transparency, then do it right, once, and put the thicker stuff in now. That's my plan, there's no shortcuts - I'm just looking to confirm if there's any value doing it on walls with doors (i.e. do the doors negate the insulation elsewhere in the stud or not)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 minute ago, eandg said: That's my plan, there's no shortcuts - I'm just looking to confirm if there's any value doing it on walls with doors (i.e. do the doors negate the insulation elsewhere in the stud or not)? The heavier the door the better the sound insulating value but don’t lower the wall insulation to match the door!. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, eandg said: That's my plan, there's no shortcuts - I'm just looking to confirm if there's any value doing it on walls with doors (i.e. do the doors negate the insulation elsewhere in the stud or not)? Yup, absolutely, afaic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 We used 50mm everywhere, every single wall and ceiling void, seems to have worked a treat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 23 minutes ago, Conor said: We used 50mm everywhere, every single wall and ceiling void, seems to have worked a treat. What did you use? For speed and ease of use I had planned on using rockwool slab stuff which is 600mm wide but all our stud openings are largely 560s so now looking for best alternative. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 25 minutes ago, eandg said: What did you use? For speed and ease of use I had planned on using rockwool slab stuff which is 600mm wide but all our stud openings are largely 560s so now looking for best alternative. Cheers. Isover accoustic rolls. They'll fit in fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Conor said: Isover accoustic rolls. They'll fit in fine. Any idea how the Isover compares to the Rockwool for performance? (I apologise for my laziness and not looking it up!) also, how was it to install? I used isover 35 between my studs and it was itchy as ****! One of the nice things about the Rockwool is it’s not itchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 @Thorfun I've no idea on either count. It was what I could find locally, and the borders installed it as they went. Best £2/m² I've ever spent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETC Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 hours ago, eandg said: Looking at the Buildings Regs (for Scotland) and our Building Warrant it looks like we only need 25mm at 10kg/m3 in the studs, though we'll go to 50mm. Query I have is about stud walls with a door in them - I can't see anything in either doc noting exemptions but from reading some stuff online it suggests that sound insulation may not be required (or is of limited value) in walls where there is a door. So questions are 1) is it required? and 2) if not, and of limited value, is going any more than the bare minimum 25mm of any particular value? Sound resistance is not required to a wall with a door in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Conor said: @Thorfun I've no idea on either count. It was what I could find locally, and the borders installed it as they went. Best £2/m² I've ever spent. fair enough! thought I'd do a bit of quick research. interestingly Saint Gobain don't seem to publish any sort of acoustic performance details for their acoustic roll (https://insulation-uk.com/products/isover-acoustic-partition-roll-apr-1200). in the declaration of performance data sheet for sound absorption it states NPD (No Performance Determined). all they refer to is the BG White book. whereas the Rockwool Datasheet for the RW range states at dB sound reduction for their products. makes you wonder what Isover have to hide! I'm sure they all do a very similar thing though. I'm a little way off needing to do this work so I've still more time to do the research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 Is there an easy way of calculating sound reduction - do you just add up each of the 'db reduction' figures in the product sheets? We're not far off implementing current plans which are for 12.5mm plasterboard on 9mm OSB either side of studs filled with 50mm acoustic roll for walls and for floors some wood fibre underlay, 100mm acoustic roll in joists and then 15mm plasterboard on ceilings, potentially with resilient bars. My initial googling for a ready reckoner does not find anything my wee brain can cope with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 2 hours ago, eandg said: Is there an easy way of calculating sound reduction - do you just add up each of the 'db reduction' figures in the product sheets? We're not far off implementing current plans which are for 12.5mm plasterboard on 9mm OSB either side of studs filled with 50mm acoustic roll for walls and for floors some wood fibre underlay, 100mm acoustic roll in joists and then 15mm plasterboard on ceilings, potentially with resilient bars. My initial googling for a ready reckoner does not find anything my wee brain can cope with. can't answer the calculation question but sounds like you're on similar thought train to us. i just posted a question about the OSB requirement behind plasterboard here and i think i've come to the conclusion that i won't bother in general areas. between rooms where i want better sound insulation, eg between the TV room and my study, it's cheaper to double plasterboard and for areas where heavy things will be hung on walls, e.g. kitchen, basins, i can OSB with 11mm/18mm in those locations only. so our makeup is now proposed to be 50mm Rockwool RWA45 between studs in walls with 12.5mm plasterboard either side and doubled up on room partitions that might need extra sound proofing. 100mm Rockwool RWA45 between the joists with 12.5mm plasterboard on resilient bars. might consider doubling the boards up in certain areas. also thinking of making a false drop ceiling in the TV room so i can isolate the room some more from the bedroom above and fill that void with more sound insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 2 hours ago, eandg said: Is there an easy way of calculating sound reduction Calculation is complicated because each material responds differently at different frequency ranges. The simplest solution is to look at manufacturers technical literature, where they will have a number of standard constructions already calculated, and choose one of those. 15 minutes ago, Thorfun said: 12.5mm plasterboard on 9mm OSB either side of studs filled with 50mm acoustic roll That's a good design from the fixing and the airborne sound perspective. If you're concerned about impact sound then you may also want to use a separate frame for each side of the partition (particularly for a kitchen or bathroom next to a bedroom) - or arrange your rooms so that you have a built-in wardrobe on one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 50 minutes ago, Thorfun said: can't answer the calculation question but sounds like you're on similar thought train to us. i just posted a question about the OSB requirement behind plasterboard here and i think i've come to the conclusion that i won't bother in general areas. between rooms where i want better sound insulation, eg between the TV room and my study, it's cheaper to double plasterboard and for areas where heavy things will be hung on walls, e.g. kitchen, basins, i can OSB with 11mm/18mm in those locations only. so our makeup is now proposed to be 50mm Rockwool RWA45 between studs in walls with 12.5mm plasterboard either side and doubled up on room partitions that might need extra sound proofing. 100mm Rockwool RWA45 between the joists with 12.5mm plasterboard on resilient bars. might consider doubling the boards up in certain areas. also thinking of making a false drop ceiling in the TV room so i can isolate the room some more from the bedroom above and fill that void with more sound insulation. On our load bearing walls we have OSB sheathing on one side and are required to put some up on the other side in any case, so I'm hoping that does the job. On our non-load bearing walls I am planning on doing as Mike says below and erecting the wardrobes between the walls. There's one room which is a partition between a bedroom and bathroom and I think I'll put plywood up on both sides for fixings. 29 minutes ago, Mike said: Calculation is complicated because each material responds differently at different frequency ranges. The simplest solution is to look at manufacturers technical literature, where they will have a number of standard constructions already calculated, and choose one of those. That's a good design from the fixing and the airborne sound perspective. If you're concerned about impact sound then you may also want to use a separate frame for each side of the partition (particularly for a kitchen or bathroom next to a bedroom) - or arrange your rooms so that you have a built-in wardrobe on one side. Do you mean a second stud? How good/necessary are acoustic caulks for at plasterboard junctions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, eandg said: Do you mean a second stud? How good/necessary are acoustic caulks for at plasterboard junctions? Yes - and acoustic caulk is essential, as are airtight pattress boxes, sealing of pipe penetrations, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 2 hours ago, eandg said: On our load bearing walls we have OSB sheathing on one side and are required to put some up on the other side in any case, we have these too but i wasn't told the other side needed to be sheathed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted March 22, 2023 Author Share Posted March 22, 2023 21 hours ago, Mike said: Yes - and acoustic caulk is essential, as are airtight pattress boxes, sealing of pipe penetrations, etc. Any thoughts on sealing pipe penetrations that are a bit big for sealant/caulk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I guess the conventional way is spray foam or pack with insulation and then make good the surface? For an airtight seal - expanding foam tape or sealing tape plus membrane? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted March 22, 2023 Author Share Posted March 22, 2023 34 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said: I guess the conventional way is spray foam or pack with insulation and then make good the surface? For an airtight seal - expanding foam tape or sealing tape plus membrane? Thanks - can manage the expanding foam alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 52 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said: I guess the conventional way is spray foam or pack with insulation and then make good the surface? For an airtight seal - expanding foam tape or sealing tape plus membrane? +1. at least that's how we're doing it. they do sell Tescon grommits and stuff to do this but we just foam and put loads of Tescon Vana around it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 11 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said: I guess the conventional way is spray foam or pack with insulation and then make good the surface? For an airtight seal - expanding foam tape or sealing tape plus membrane? Yes, for me Siga Rissan tape or Illbruck FM330 foam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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