Pocster Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) Strangely enough Tesla emailed me suggesting their might be a problem. It's unclear too me the issue though. From a remote analysis of the customers system I could see that since 23rd June 2022 the Solar Production is showing negative values (see graph below). With negative loads the overall system measurement is incorrect and the battery cannot charge in a proper way. Since the customer has another SolarEdge battery since June 2022 (I assume in the same electrical circuit) we need to see if: a) this is a compatible setup, and if yes, how to make it measure correctly. [Because the portion which is going into SolarEdge battery is not being measured here] b) if there is an incorrect Solar CT placement or an incorrect Solar assignment Edited February 11, 2023 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, pocster said: Strangely enough Tesla emailed me suggesting their might be a problem. It's unclear too me the issue though. From a remote analysis of the customers system I could see that since 23rd June 2022 the Solar Production is showing negative values (see graph below). With negative loads the overall system measurement is incorrect and the battery cannot charge in a proper way. Since the customer has another SolarEdge battery since June 2022 (I assume in the same electrical circuit) we need to see if: a) this is a compatible setup, and if yes, how to make it measure correctly. [Because the portion which is going into SolarEdge battery is not being measured here] b) if there is an incorrect Solar CT placement or an incorrect Solar assignment Does it matter the portion going into the SE battery isn't measured by Tesla ? ( I know it isn't ). Why would Tesla 'care' about that? CT placements I assume are correct - no issues I am aware of. "Solar assignment" no idea what that refers/means Edited February 11, 2023 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: You can't drive your batteries to chuffing Sainsbury's though !?! Roll on V2G!!! That will end this madness. It should but not convinced it will. Ours has V2L and technically supports V2G (well it obviously has the inverter) Whether they ever update the software to support it is an open question. Few of the current generation of EVs even support V2L which really ought to be a standard feature. Given the current state of the PV/battery storage industry and the relative complexity of getting it all to work successfully I think we are quite far away from plugging your car into your house as an additional power source/storage. I’m trying to future proof our build to allow us to do just that if and when it’s available. I reckon we are another generation of EVs away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 Bloody SWMBO !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, pocster said: Does it matter the portion going into the SE battery isn't measured by Tesla ? ( I know it isn't ). Why would Tesla 'care' about that? CT placements I assume are correct - no issues I am aware of. "Solar assignment" no idea what that refers/means They don’t really but it’s pretty good they spotted it. Having the whole system accurately report in one place is handy unless you’re bringing that together somewhere else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Our son has a body shop and while he hates Electric vehicles He says Tesler are surprisingly well made Though he would prefer a key Rather than a card 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Few of the current generation of EVs even support V2L which really ought to be a standard feature. But that is changing now. Newly developed vehicles being introduced now and in the coming near future are offering this as an option. It's the home chargers that need to catch up and offer bidirectional 22kW charging at a reasonable price. To make use of V2L, the charging window will be reduced so EVs need to charge faster at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 56 minutes ago, Kelvin said: I think we are quite far away from plugging your car into your house as an additional power source/storage. Behind the scenes in the solar industry, this is said to be as close as 3 years from now, possibly 1 for one certain manufacturer. We're advising people to hold off installing EV chargers if they can, even if it means missing out on zero VAT now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, pocster said: If I go and buy a new Tesla motor for 80k - no one does the maths on cost per mile including the initial 80k outlay Many people do. The AA used to have a service that calculated the true running costs of different vehicles. How I got £0.38p/mile for my Peugeot 309 GLDT in 1990. Worked out better than have a company car. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1633412/Calculator-True-cost-running-car.html Edited February 11, 2023 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 47 minutes ago, IanR said: But that is changing now. Newly developed vehicles being introduced now and in the coming near future are offering this as an option. It's the home chargers that need to catch up and offer bidirectional 22kW charging at a reasonable price. To make use of V2L, the charging window will be reduced so EVs need to charge faster at home. V2L and V2G are two different things though which I’m sure you know. With V2G you have all the same challenges with islanding the house in the event of a power cut if the car is plugged in. I am in two minds still about installing battery storage in the house. It doesn’t make much financial sense as the numbers don’t really stack up. Because our EV supports V2L we could install an emergency circuits in the house with some lights off it and provide power to the private water supply plant so we have water. Then wait and see how the market develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Then wait and see how the market develops. Won't the power come back on first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 55 minutes ago, Kelvin said: V2L and V2G are two different things though which I’m sure you know. Of course, and I was specifically referring to V2L. I can't see a route to V2G. I don't know how the government incentivises the charger and solar industry to reduce the value of home batteries and increase the value of automotive batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, IanR said: Of course, and I was specifically referring to V2L. I can't see a route to V2G. I don't know how the government incentivises the charger and solar industry to reduce the value of home batteries and increase the value of automotive batteries. I’m a wee bit confused then. Why do home chargers need to offer bi-directional charging for V2L? According to @Nickfromwalesabove we’re only a few years away so it must be in someone’s strategy somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, Kelvin said: I’m a wee bit confused then. Why do home chargers need to offer bi-directional charging for V2L? According to @Nickfromwalesabove we’re only a few years away so it must be in someone’s strategy somewhere. What is V2L in EVs? V2L is the most basic application of bidirectional charging. It does not require a bidirectional charger. Instead, a V2L adapter is plugged into your type 2 charging port which allows the car to operate as a portable battery pack with a standard 120/240V power supply.19 Nov 2022 7 minutes ago, Kelvin said: so it must be in someone’s strategy somewhere. Yup, but it's a completely different plug, socket and charger ( for V2G vs V2L ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 29 minutes ago, Kelvin said: I’m a wee bit confused then. Why do home chargers need to offer bi-directional charging for V2L? Bi-directional "charging", while it's term used for V2H chargers, it's not about actually charging anything back in the home, just allowing the power to flow from the vehicle's HV battery to the house. V2L and V2H are the same from the automotive perspective, it's the home charger that allows the power to go to the home via the charging socket. Yes a V2L vehicle will be able to power tools and appliances directly, via a 3 pin plug socket, but the hardware included on the vehicle then opens up V2H via a bi-directional home charger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 Is this using the car to power the house of limited use anyway ? Are you likely to charge your car at cheap rate - then at a later time discharge it to power your home . What I mean is leaving the charge therefore in your car lower . Can understand if your employer has a free EV charger - fill your boots at work then drive home and power your house . I just can’t see a real benefit for most people . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) I know all of that but you were specifically talking about V2L not V2H. While technically the same operationally V2L doesn’t need bi-directional chargers which is what confused me. V2H does of course but requires islanding protection etc just as V2G. Of course you’d only be exporting to the grid if the rate was worthwhile and certainly higher than the electricity cost to charge the battery which wouldn’t be easy to achieve if you used a lot of public chargers. Edited February 11, 2023 by Kelvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, pocster said: Is this using the car to power the house of limited use anyway ? Are you likely to charge your car at cheap rate - then at a later time discharge it to power your home . What I mean is leaving the charge therefore in your car lower . Can understand if your employer has a free EV charger - fill your boots at work then drive home and power your house . I just can’t see a real benefit for most people . Depends on your usage. It wouldn’t suit us right now as my other half is away a lot. But your average driver does very few miles per day or the car spends it’s time mostly sitting outside. I could charge it on a cheap night time rate and then discharge it into the house when the sun isn’t shining. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kelvin said: I know all of that but you were specifically talking about V2L not V2H. Yes, because the context of the discussion at that point was about the vehicle, as I was responding to: 5 hours ago, Kelvin said: Few of the current generation of EVs even support V2L Which, I quoted. The EV manufacturer can't offer V2H, as that requires infrastructure at the property. The Vehicle manufacturer can only offer V2L, it's then up to the property owner if they want to take the next step and utilise the vehicle's V2L for V2H. 2 hours ago, pocster said: Is this using the car to power the house of limited use anyway ? Are you likely to charge your car at cheap rate - then at a later time discharge it to power your home . It will suit a lot of users, but not all. The automotive manufacturer wants to increase the value of the in-vehicle battery by replacing the need for a home battery, (or significantly reducing the required size of the home battery). A combination of storing excess solar PV, and low rate, nigh time electricity, can be used by the home when the solar is meeting demand, and still leave enough charge in the vehicle for the regular, short journeys. Some scheduling on the vehicle or charger side will be needed if there is an irregular, longer journey planned to ensure the vehicle has sufficient charge. Faster charge and discharge rates at home (than standard 7kW), will make V2H more effective. Edited February 11, 2023 by IanR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 hours ago, pocster said: fill your boots at work then drive home and power your house Not allowed, as it provokes "benefit in kind" taxation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: Not allowed, as it provokes "benefit in kind" taxation. Really ? No good you topping up at my house ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Kelvin said: Of course you’d only be exporting to the grid if the rate was worthwhile and certainly higher than the electricity cost to charge the battery which wouldn’t be easy to achieve if you used a lot of public chargers. It'll be of greater interest to those of a retired / work-from-home discipline. And even more so to the Octopus Agile hawks. Will come into it's own for a 2 EV house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Just now, pocster said: Really ? No good you topping up at my house ! The "kind" of "benefits" at your house would make me choose walking mate!! 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Plus, you can't afford me after buying all these expensive batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 6 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: The "kind" of "benefits" at your house would make me choose walking mate!! 🤣 You’d (expletive deleted)ing owe me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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