Next door's retaining wall bulging, they wont fix it, court action costs?

[PXR5]

6 minutes ago, twice round the block said:

The wall looks fine.

You'll be building a meter from the boundary anyway.

 

The tree/ bush roots have pushed it over by more than 6" at the top, It would be to every ones advantage to do the work before I start my build!

Edited January 9, 2023 by PXR5

[ToughButterCup]

21 minutes ago, PXR5 said:

...They have shown them self's to be what they are, you can not have mutal benifical negotiations with people like this .

 

But they are what you've got. Many of us on BH have problems with neighbours: it's normal.  You've identified the issue as a problem. may I suggest you re-frame the issue as one where - despite how you feel - you try and work through the problem together.  

 

Or spend the money on putting it right. Or ignore the problem.

[PXR5]

I'll wait for the wall to collapse, then they will need to do the work. As Ive allready said, I offered to help them fix the wall up but they refused. They also refuse to remove the bushes/ tree, I'm not going to lose 2 feet of my land to them!!!!

Edited January 9, 2023 by PXR5

[IanR]

I feel you need to spend some money to at least get the current status recorded. If you are starting to use the land, when you haven't before, moving plant etc. and plan to build in a few years, which may involve excavation in the proximity of the wall, then you may get in a situation where you are having to prove you did not cause the collapse.

 

If you're spending the money on an SE to do a report, then spend a little more to Engineer a repair. With a plan or works you should be able to get that costed up. It could be the start of an easier negotiation, if you've taken out the unknowns. Maybe it will cost less than they expect to resolve, or maybe you offering to contribute if they take action in the next 12 months unlocks the impasse.

 

Either way it will certainly be in you favour if you have acted reasonably and it ends up in court. 

 

15 minutes ago, PXR5 said:

I assume if it goes down, its a black & white issue, & they will have to repair it?.

 

They could still do nothing.

Edited January 9, 2023 by IanR

[ToughButterCup]

1 minute ago, IanR said:

...

Either way it will certainly be in you favour if you have acted reasonably and it ends up in court. 

...

They could still do nothing

 

You aren't the first and won't be the last to post similar problems on this board. In all of the discussions we've read here, one thing is clear: carrying the weight of a grudge for however long diminishes everyone involved. All because of a few square meters of land - that won't even be noticed a few years from now. 

[ProDave]

I rewired an old cottage a few years back that had subsidence issues.  It was in danger of sliding down the hill.

 

But that was not my point, there was also a similar height retaining wall between the cottage and next door, same situation next door was higher.

 

The solution in this case was a new retaining wall was built on the land owned by the cottage but right up to the existing leaning wall.  But the system they used was not what we conventionally know as a retainig wall, but a system where big piles were driven into the ground, and then the concrete sections making the wall dropped in behind the piles.

 

Does anyone know of such a sysatem, it would seem ideal for this case, easy to install and would not take up much of @PXR5 garden.

 

EDIT here is a picture from streetview of the wall I am refering to:

 

 

That white wall with the house name painted on is the new retaining wall, see the steel piles driven into the ground and the concrete panels lifted in.  Behind the new wall is the old failing retaining wall still in place, still with the neighbours planting and fence just where it was.

[ToughButterCup]

41 minutes ago, ProDave said:

...

but a system where big piles were driven into the ground, and then the concrete sections making the wall dropped in behind the piles.

Does anyone know of such a system

...

 

A local garden centre has a retaining wall of around 1.5m , holding back a plain earth bank behind which (3m away) there's a pond. They dropped some new timber railway sleepers end on into a trench, lined it with plastic, a French drain,  some 20mm gravel and back-filled to the top of the sleepers. Cheap as chips.

 

Carnforth rail yard has (had) many thousand of them - various lengths - stacked neatly - bet the job cost less than £5000. Delicious smell of Creosote. 

Your design @ProDave would be better, but more expensive and a bit safer maybe?

[Miek]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

 

The solution in this case was a new retaining wall was built on the land owned by the cottage but right up to the existing leaning wall.  But the system they used was not what we conventionally know as a retainig wall, but a system where big piles were driven into the ground, and then the concrete sections making the wall dropped in behind the piles.

 

 

 

Clearly a sensible  approach. It avoids any excavation for a new footing which could potentially damage the existing wall even more. 

 

I guess you would need to ascertain whether the piling would hit any existing  footing , but that's easy enough with a spade and some effort. 

 

[PeterW]

3 hours ago, PXR5 said:

I'm not going to lose 2 feet of my land to them!!!!

you’re not ..??? Why not stagger the wall - given no-one knows what this looks like or land area etc I am guessing here - so it has a raised bed all the way down and then plant that up which also allows you to screen from the neighbours ..??

 

Unless this is a very narrow site, 2ft of land is not going to be noticed. If it is a material issue then I would expect you need a party wall agreement and with the neighbours how they are then they will make your life hell.  

[Gow]

5 hours ago, PXR5 said:

Im in no rush to do the build

 

 

Have you thought of going out late at night to slowly but surely kill off the roots of their trees and bushes which have extended into your garden? I had to get rid of a hazelnut tree which was blocking out the light and precariously close to a retaining wall. I bought a product from the organic garden catalogue to kill off the stump. I think it was called amicide. It worked a treat. There seem to be plenty of other environmentally friendly ways of killing off the roots late at night, just google for answers.

[Kelvin]

5 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

You aren't the first and won't be the last to post similar problems on this board. In all of the discussions we've read here, one thing is clear: carrying the weight of a grudge for however long diminishes everyone involved. All because of a few square meters of land - that won't even be noticed a few years from now. 

Listen to this. Sage advice. 

[PXR5]

Thanks for the replies, the land is not big enough for me to lose any area. I've offered to help them resolve the problem, they dont want to know.

So what elase can I do? Im not going to lose land or pay for their wall.  

 

I have allready taken pics etc so its on record, &  Building control have been to see the site, the neighbours  had made the wall a major isssue with B' control stating I had damaged their wall.

 

I'm going to wait untill the wall goes down.

[PeterW]

1 minute ago, PXR5 said:

the land is not big enough for me to lose any area

then the chances are you are going to need a party wall agreement and they will hold all the cards to make your build very problematic. Also getting into neighbour disputes will need to be recorded if you sell .. 

 

Is this really worth the hassle ..?

[PXR5]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

then the chances are you are going to need a party wall agreement and they will hold all the cards to make your build very problematic. Also getting into neighbour disputes will need to be recorded if you sell .. 

 

Is this really worth the hassle ..?

Have you read all what Ive said?, they refuse to remove the tree/ bushes, & I can not lose any land to build a new wall. So what should I do?

[Kelvin]

7 minutes ago, PXR5 said:

.

 

I'm going to wait untill the wall goes down.

That wall could stay like that for a long time certainly the three years you plan to build your house. 
 

Anyway looks like you want to get into

a big fight about this so good luck. Don’t let it consume you though. 

[PeterW]

4 minutes ago, PXR5 said:

Have you read all what Ive said?, they refuse to remove the tree/ bushes, & I can not lose any land to build a new wall. So what should I do?

Yes I’ve read what you put - have you read what I put though..? 
 

If you’re building that close to their structure then you wlll need a party wall agreement. Given the state of the retaining wall you would be best advised to get one as any further damage to the wall could be deemed from your construction activity and then you will be liable to rebuild at your cost if you don’t have one. 

[PXR5]

2 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

That wall could stay like that for a long time certainly the three years you plan to build your house. 
 

Anyway looks like you want to get into

a big fight about this so good luck. Don’t let it consume you though. 

No, I dont want to get into a big fight! I've offered to help them repair their wall, they dont want to know & want me to lose 2 feet of my land, Ive lived in this village for over 40 odd years, I'm know as the man that helps others when they have problems with heating plumbing etc..... Ive never had any fall outs with anyone untill these low lifes turned up.

[PXR5]

5 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Yes I’ve read what you put - have you read what I put though..? 
 

If you’re building that close to their structure then you wlll need a party wall agreement. Given the state of the retaining wall you would be best advised to get one as any further damage to the wall could be deemed from your construction activity and then you will be liable to rebuild at your cost if you don’t have one. 

They refuse to remove the tree/ bushes, I can not surrender any of my land, so the issue will remain what ever is done

Re; party wall act, this has no teeth, as long as you dont damage their wall/ land nothing can be done by them or the courts.

Edited January 9, 2023 by PXR5

[Kelvin]

Going legal is a big a fight. It’s your choice. You’re not losing 2 feet of land. You’re building a wall that protects the rest of your land and your build that you have complete control over. 

[PXR5]

Back to the main question of my post, given that their tree / bush roots have clearly caused the wall to bulge, surely its down to them to get it repaired?

[PXR5]

9 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Going legal is a big a fight. It’s your choice. You’re not losing 2 feet of land. You’re building a wall that protects the rest of your land and your build that you have complete control over. 

But unless they remove the bushes/ tree, the roots will do future damage, if they agreed to remove them I could work with that, but they wont. Thats my problem.

[Kelvin]

Remove the roots on your land. Put in a root barrier. Build your wall. Make the Mexicans pay for it. 

[PeterW]

7 hours ago, PXR5 said:

Im in no rush to do the build, so I've layed hard core on the ground & I’ll use the area for my spare yard. I'll repair my plant there, pile up my building gear, gas bottles etc, shame it will look so bad from their windon.

So I take it you’re a builder / developer ..?? What is the land currently used for and do you have planning for your new house ..?

 

Reason for asking is that this could be deemed a change of use - storage land is a different land classification so your neighbour could complain and your council could require you to obtain PP for the storage. That then means you may need to reapply for PP for any house …

 

As a couple of people have said - that wall doesn’t look too bad and casting concrete in front of it could pay dividends in the future.

 

7 hours ago, PXR5 said:

assume if it goes down, its a black & white issue, & they will have to repair it?.

Not at all - firstly they could say action you undertook undermined it if you stacked things against it. Secondly, there is no legal obligation to maintain a retaining wall assuming that the property above remains stable - they could reinstate it as a bank as long as it remains safe and on their side of the boundary. 
 

Two outstanding questions - how close is their property to the wall, and how close are you building to the retaining wall..?
 

 

[jack]

15 minutes ago, PXR5 said:

Back to the main question of my post, given that their tree / bush roots have clearly caused the wall to bulge, surely its down to them to get it repaired?

 

If it had been your wall, sure, but it isn't your wall, it's theirs.

 

Unless their deeds require them to maintain a wall on that boundary at their expense, you can't make them repair it if it's damaged.

 

If it does fall down, all you can do is sue them for the cost of any damage (likely minimal if it doesn't hit anything) and clearing the land (not much given they can just pick the bricks up themselves).

[PeterW]

19 minutes ago, PXR5 said:

Re; party wall act, this has no teeth, as long as you dont damage their wall/ land nothing can be done by them or the courts.

I would suggest case law says otherwise ..!! And it sounds like your neighbours may play hard ball and with no PWA in place then you can get an injunction to cease works which could cause you a number of issues - up to and including imprisonment if you continue to breach a court order.