Church conversion, southern Scotland (Langholm) - questions will begin soon...

[eejaybee88]

Hi all - just purchased old chapel (1870). Currently a warehouse, previous owner got planning approved to convert in 2015, but just to up the valuation, no work ever undertaken, & left the place unmaintained since then so it's in a fairly derelict state.

 

2ft-thick walls of solid stone with Scottish slate roof, lathe & plaster under. Skews failing so the East-facing gable ends are leaking & a hole has developed, so first job is to get these areas covered up/new guttering etc & dry the place out. Other than that the fabric is pretty solid, though they did also fill in beside the building with deep concrete to enable easier loading/unloading, so that will all have to come out also as front left basement/undercroft is soaking. They also whacked in an additional floor for the warehouse (original church floor being sloped) using steel girders.

 

Pretty large for a first project, so will have plenty of questions on every aspect - I discovered this great resource before proceeding, so I felt a little more secure in being able to get first-hand insights with no axes to grind wrt recommendations & alternative approaches. Using a heritage specialist surveyor recommended by Scottish Lime Centre, so looking to steer course between modern efficiency & best/sympathetic materials.

 

Planning to add an additional floor, with wet underfloor heating, though each floor will require a different approach.

 

Tbh with all costs sky-rocketing, not sure my budget will stretch to completion, but will at least get past it's most fundamental problems.

 

Meeting with surveyor & architect shortly so any observations or questions I should ask would be useful - looking forward :+}

 

 

[Kelvin]

Welcome and congratulations on a brave project to take on. 

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome. You are a brave man.  The biggest challenge I expect will be to create a home that is anything like energy efficient.  Don't even consider UFH until you have a proper conversion plan and an estimate of heating requirements.

 

I look forward to reading how this project goes.  Best of luck.

[saveasteading]

It's huge.

So glad you are researching lime. Since we got interested it becomes obvious how many buildings are being patched with cement. 

 

I like the touch of the 2 black cars. Very appropriate.

 

Prodave says don't consider ufh. Perhaps considering is OK, just don't assume yet. What is the ground floor construction?

[Drellingore]

Cool stuff, best of luck!

[Gone West]

Quite some project, good luck. Hope you can stretch your budget to completion.

[eejaybee88]

Indeed it is huge, & blessedly plain & square

 

The walls have some cement pointing/patching, some will come off, some am advised to leave unless/until it becomes a problem. Lime plaster should be ideal for walls. Constructing roof/ceilings & floors definitely more complex.

 

Undercroft floor is solid (cement?) so can definitely dig out. Church floor is suspended over earth/rock as far as I can see. Floors are differing heights, hence would have to look at how to do it. 

[eejaybee88]

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

Hi and welcome. You are a brave man.  The biggest challenge I expect will be to create a home that is anything like energy efficient.  Don't even consider UFH until you have a proper conversion plan and an estimate of heating requirements.

 

I look forward to reading how this project goes.  Best of luck.

Energy efficiency is a problem for everyone - why do you think this place more than any other old building? Surprised ufh particularly unattractive in your book - most places say ufh is ideal solution (if there is such a thing) except you have to rip everything out, & here there's nothing to rip out. There is a gas connection already, & can look at solar as a back up in due course/if allowed.

 

Can you supply some background on your heating preferences?

 

Of course no decision yet, but it's not like there are a billion heating options...

[saveasteading]

1 minute ago, eejaybee88 said:

advised to leave unless/until it becomes a problem.

It becomes a problem when the stone starts to spall, which is too late. Is it sandstone?

There is a very informative youtube showing a pair of semis, where one is being ruined by cement mortar and the other remains sound.

Found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Omxc4OK9eE

 

Not urgent but bear it in mind.

 

3 minutes ago, eejaybee88 said:

floor is solid (cement?) so can definitely dig out

You have loads of height, so can you retain the floor and build another insulated one on top? About 200mm.

[Jilly]

Wow, amazing! 

 

If you know finances will be tricky, can you divide the project into two parts somehow, so that you can make it liveable and then do the rest as you earn/ have time?

 

 

35 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

.

 

You have loads of height, so can you retain the floor and build another insulated one on top? About 200mm.

That suggestion will save your shedloads of money and aggravation. 

 

 

Ferdinand on here has a special interest in church restoration. 

[jayc89]

1 hour ago, eejaybee88 said:

Indeed it is huge, & blessedly plain & square

 

The walls have some cement pointing/patching, some will come off, some am advised to leave unless/until it becomes a problem. Lime plaster should be ideal for walls. Constructing roof/ceilings & floors definitely more complex.

 

Undercroft floor is solid (cement?) so can definitely dig out. Church floor is suspended over earth/rock as far as I can see. Floors are differing heights, hence would have to look at how to do it. 

 

We used limecrete for some of our floors - https://www.mikewye.co.uk/product-category/lime-products/limecrete-floor-systems/ - foam glass is a joy to work with, so much easier than MOT 1 hardcore and is key to the build up, as it acts as both the insulation and capillary break (i.e. DPM). However, if I was to do it again, I wouldn't use NHL 5. It dries as strong and as impermeable as concrete, and is approx 2x the cost!

[eejaybee88]

32 minutes ago, jayc89 said:

 

We used limecrete for some of our floors - https://www.mikewye.co.uk/product-category/lime-products/limecrete-floor-systems/ - foam glass is a joy to work with, so much easier than MOT 1 hardcore and is key to the build up, as it acts as both the insulation and capillary break (i.e. DPM). However, if I was to do it again, I wouldn't use NHL 5. It dries as strong and as impermeable as concrete, and is approx 2x the cost!

Thanks - so what would you use if not NHL5, 2x more expensive than what?

[jayc89]

1 minute ago, eejaybee88 said:

Thanks - so what would you use if not NHL5, 2x more expensive than what?

 

I'd sand/cement screed over the foam glass. NHL5 is used for its strength, not its breathability in this situation. 

[DevonKim]

Wow!  What an amazing building 🙂 Looking forward to following what you do with it.  

[Iceverge]

Holy Moly!!!

 

Congratulations and welcome!

 

This is not a project for the faint of heart but a very interesting one. 

 

Step 1. Deal with the water. Fix the roof. Did all around the walls right down to the foundations (carefully with a small digger) and install a french drain. 

 

Step 2. Obviously make it liveable you will need to do some serious insulating. 

 

As the external has such lovely stonework and proximate buildings I would suggest internal insulation.  Two choices here. Breathable insulation stuck to the inside of the walls or a box within a box. 

 

Given you have no shortage of floor space I'd go for the latter. Here's a  nice project for inspiration. 

 

https://www.greenbuildingstore.co.uk/technical-resource/cre8-barn-stirley-farm-enerphit/