How feasable.. Floor Job.

[Pocster]

18 hours ago, Onoff said:

probe pouffe 

 

 

It will end in tears. ( or indeed even tears!)

[zoothorn]

On 14/12/2022 at 16:59, saveasteading said:

Yes.

In the steading we are converting.

We have the advantage of not living in it, and also that the ground is dense sand.

The main concern was exposing the very shallow footings. There are tales of buildings falling down, and this is a real concern.

 

In your case I would work in small areas, perhaps 1m or 1 .5m wide across the room so as to minimise the exposed area of wall. Then you can dig out to the chosen depth, smooth and compact, lay dpm, lay pir, and screed over.

Then move on, taping the dpm at laps.

I wouldn't dig below the footing level. However you could jncreaze the depth away from the wall. Loads spreading at 45 degrees is a decent assumption.

I would also place pir vertically over the edge of the screed. Even 10mm is worth it, but I would suggest 20mm if a skirting or quadrant can cover it.

 

Meanwhile in my own house with solid concrete floors....I have not done this because of the work and disruption involved. I do have 100mm pir in most of the walls though so am not in your position.

 

How thick are your walls?

Hi SAS, thanks great help. A huge ammount for me understand in this post though, much I don't tbh. Will try going through it over the weekend. Appreciated.

 

The idea early on in this post though, of buildings falling down.. has me kinda stopping with the idea right here. Get a pro in. Because as I'm dealing with such a basically-built stone rectangle shell, with damp within the walls (capillary action seemingly drawing it up) & know mud used as mortar, (mud evidence seen in my porch renovation).. plus with my still limited building experience, then I think it's wise that I don't even think about the excavation work myself.

 

This is what I was aiming for, to be able to make an evaluation on whether the excavation work is A) sensible, + B) a tenable idea with my skills = C) whether it (IE the excavation 'lions share' main part of the job).... is a feasable idea, for ME.

 

I think the right conclusion is no. If it was a more modern building, I think the answer might be yes.

 

That's great. I'll pause & consider getting a quote for my local builder I know (who knows these old stone cottages well) to do the excavation: leaving a prepped surface for me to add dpm/ PIR/ new floor.

 

Gratefully, Zoot

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

@Onoff fab reference photos there. Seriously useful: even if I get builder in to do excavation work.. now seems the sensible route.. I can refer to these giving me a better knowledge of their job 'steps' involved.

 

And an ideal reference for when I do the 'easy/ downhill' part of the job too. Thanks so much for adding these. Im sure others will be grateful too.

 

I bet your tearing your hair out trying to persuade Swmbo to let you attack the floor. In meantime, anyone using the word pouffe gets my vote! I haven't heard that word since my grannie used it in 1976! 
 

ThankZ

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

19 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

In meantime, anyone using the word pouffe gets my vote! I haven't heard that word since my grannie used it in 1976! 
 

 

It's corduroy too, very 70s!

Someone was chucking it out.

 

Still, it keeps our feet off the lounge floor, currently the thermometer there is showing a balmy 10.9degC...the one  mid air in the centre of the room is 17.6degC. Heating has been on since 9am with room stat set at 30degC.

 

4degC in the bathroom though it did get up to 5...

Edited December 16, 2022 by Onoff

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

4degC in the bathroom though it did get up to 5...

Ufh working then ? 

[Onoff]

15 minutes ago, pocster said:

Ufh working then ? 

 

In your house maybe!

 

I'm staying in the lounge where it's 11.6degC any warmer and I might have take the blanket and wooly hat off!

 

SWMBO currently outside trying to thaw the kitchen waste pipes that run around the house perimeter above ground. Frozen solid meaning  the washing machine, dishwasher and kitchen sink can't be used. Boiling copious kettles etc.

 

When I said about sorting proper drains...you'll take too long, the mess etc. Usual insanity. 

[Pocster]

7 minutes ago, Onoff said:

In your house maybe!

Yeah , I was being sarcastic 🙄😎

[Onoff]

2 minutes ago, pocster said:

Yeah , I was being sarcastic 🙄😎

 

Yeah, I know! 

 

(Note the position of the comma btw, that's me being pedantic). 

 

😂

[Pocster]

@Onoff decided to re do my ufh pipework etc .

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, pocster said:

@Onoff decided to re do my ufh pipework etc .

 

Amazing, my nephew sent me that exact photo on WhatsApp the other week as an example of good plumbing. He has a sore bum too apparently. Didn't know he'd been to Bristol recently.

[Pocster]

Just now, Onoff said:

 

Amazing, my nephew sent me that exact photo on WhatsApp the other week as an example of good plumbing. He has a sore bum too apparently. Didn't know he'd been to Bristol recently.

Sorry about that . We got both plumbing sorted 👍

[Onoff]

A dog rough, fag packet sketch of what I suggested above. This is one method I've considered with my kitchen. It saves taking the kitchen units down to dig up and you really don't want heat going up into food storage cupboards or the fridge freezer anyway. It does of course mean you still have an insulated room perimeter. 

 

 

Another concern I had was that this might shift/settle over time and there'd be a noticeable "joint" between old an new floor sections. I imagine you would put a mesh or similar down before tiling the whole lot. 

 

I wouldn't do this in the lounge I don't think as we have furniture around the perimeter and I'd want heat coming up under that. 

 

Might be a moot point for me as really the whole kitchen floor is too high and wants lowering to match the rest of the house. This and the step up will become an issue for us in later life if we become semi immobile when older or wheelchair users. Hopefully we'll have frozen to death / been eaten by rats before then...

[zoothorn]

@Onoff cheers for the fag sketch.. gets me into gear 1 to be honest. I still think I should get my builder in to excavate: he might well do the cautious approach & start inward of the edge & 45* sloping down into an excavated area. It's too much of a risk for me alone, & as insurance will be involved should he take the job on: & I can make 100% sure beforehand to check all this insurance aspect, before agreeing.

 

This means I can't afford to crack on with the job now then, alas: I need to get a quote & consider the whole hightened cost. It might mean it's out of my budget. We'll see what his quote is.

 

Thanks, zoot

[zoothorn]

Chaps,

 

this new cautious approach ( builder do excavating/ quote needed/ job on hold).. means I'm back considering all aspects of where the cold might be entering the room. And whether I can do anything about it, prior to considering this massive (for me) step of excavation which would be a huge upheaval, let alone cost, duration etc.

 

Did some detective work, & one area I'd not previously thought of, has come to mind with regard to a (possible) huge area of cold ingress to this mainroom.

 

I can feel cold pouring down the stairwell. No doubt at all. Ok this could be from a,b,c,d places collectively together, or, one hugely dominating. If I close my upstairs bedroom doors.. I recently realised.. a bit less cold pours down. A bit. Suggesting the majority is -still- entering down stairwell from 1st floor though. So I look suspiciously at my sloped ceiling area of my stairwell area, high up. I go in loft, to see what insulation is stuffed down this slope. I can't see behind a big 9" joist. This blocks sight, & seems to block any access between the plasterboard sloping down behind it.. &.. the roof only 8" or so away.

 

SO. It seems to me, like the stairwell plasterboard sloped ceiling, has no insulation behind it. And the roof only a little above it here. = a freezing cold ceiling area. This sloped side section, being about 2/3rds area of the stairwell ceiling. SURELY this cold source is the main culprit of the -stairwell- cold. But access to it.. to stuff even orange fluff down... is n/a.

 

I'll add photos. Zoot

 

 

[zoothorn]

Where the trained housefly is, LHS of light, is where the joist beam is situated. It runs down length of house (front of shot to back of shot), at the point where the ceiling curves down.

 

So this side 45* angled ceiling area.. is more than 2/3rds, it's the vast majority of the stairwell ceiling in fact. The roof felt above it here, being only 6" away.
 

The gap between the pB ceiling & roof felt, within each section rafter to rafer.. I would imagine.. is a void containing no insulation at all.
 

Zoot

 

[zoothorn]

Sketch of this area..

 

 

[TonyT]

23 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Where the trained housefly is, LHS of light, is where the joist beam is situated. It runs down length of house (front of shot to back of shot), at the point where the ceiling curves down.

 

So this side 45* angled ceiling area.. is more than 2/3rds, it's the vast majority of the stairwell ceiling in fact. The roof felt above it here, being only 6" away.
 

The gap between the pB ceiling & roof felt, within each section rafter to rafer.. I would imagine.. is a void containing no insulation at all.
 

Zoot

 

Depends if you want to pull ceiling down and insulate between rafters, reinstall plasterboard, plaster/tape

 

or fix insulated plasterboard direct to ceiling, then plaster/tape.

 

 

[zoothorn]

24 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Depends if you want to pull ceiling down and insulate between rafters, reinstall plasterboard, plaster/tape

 

or fix insulated plasterboard direct to ceiling, then plaster/tape.

 

 

Hi TT,

 

ok so the redoing the pB, was one thing that occured to me too as a "possible" action to take. So you've confirmed this idea had validity. Ok that's helpful.

 

As to me choosing between this (A) & the adding-insulation-to-existing-ceiling idea (B), I have no way of knowing. As I have no experience.

 

I can only then guess, that (B) is potentially easier, & (A) is possibly trickier but would be the better option. But Im just guessing, as I have no experience.

 

 

[Onoff]

Would it be less mess to take the tiles off and insulate from outside?

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Would it be less mess to take the tiles off and insulate from outside?

Great. This is what I need. Any thoughts/ ideas/ suggestions on the possible variety of ways, to do this. So far there are 3 options.

 

( I assume this ^ isn't a Q directed at me, & one put out for others to hopefully answer.. as I couldn't possibly answer it with my ltd knowledge).

 

Thanks, Zoothorn 

[TonyT]

me, I would sheet over the existing, less grief and mess if the roof layout can take the reduction of approx 112mm.

 

if not pull the ceiling down.

 

I hate  messing about with roofs

 

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

Would it be less mess to take the tiles off and insulate from outside?

No. 
 

depending on what’s under the slate / tiles then it could become a nightmare. I would bond on PIR backed plasterboard and then screw through it and tape the joints and be done with it

[ProDave]

3 hours ago, zoothorn said:

I can feel cold pouring down the stairwell. No doubt at all. Ok this could be from a,b,c,d places collectively together, or, one hugely dominating. If I close my upstairs bedroom doors.. I recently realised.. a bit less cold pours down

I used to HATE houses that had the stairs rising from the living room. A sure sign the house is too small to support a proper hall.

 

My first house, a 1980's new build shoe box was like that. The very last place to put the sofa was anywhere near that.

 

And my MIL had a similar house.  It was toasty warm on the landing and freezing in the living room.  She largely solved it with a heavy curtain all around the stairwell but it was not pretty.

 

In a properly insulated hose this become irellevant, no cold air coming down my stairs here.

[j_s]

As per @PeterW said and then maybe a curtain at the bottom of the stairs too? A bit clutter-y but could help with making the lounge less of an ice box and a relatively cheap test compared to digging up the floor?

[zoothorn]

53 minutes ago, PeterW said:

No. 
 

depending on what’s under the slate / tiles then it could become a nightmare. I would bond on PIR backed plasterboard and then screw through it and tape the joints and be done with it

Hi Peter, understand.. but how much PIR would you say minimum though doing this?

 

It's a smallish cottage you see, every inch of room counts type thing.