saveasteading Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, Onoff said: Does this circuit have it's own breaker/fuse? Yes. currently turned off. Apart from this cable there is one outside light on the circuit, on the house wall. It has never been a problem and never will be as it is under a big roof oversail and facing north. To replace the underground cable I would, for simplicity of route, take it to the primary fuse box as in the very first photo. then hand over to a proper sparky to connect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 1 minute ago, saveasteading said: To replace the underground cable Absolutely vital to replace with SWA. The whole point of SWA is that whatever might accidentally penetrate it will first make contact with the armor which is earthed at the feed end and then make contact with live causing the circuit breaker to trip while the potential of the (garden fork) remains close to ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 Thanks. Got to get the gate working (one day left open and a white van drove in with some 'surplus furniture' to sell. Obv a proper electrician won't touch it. Come some decent weather I will try to find the cable and the route. It is possibly swa to close by. Then trench and lay it myself as necessary. For now, I will replace with a new box, with glands, fitted in flexi from below as Onoff suggested. Is replacing the swa gland reasonably straight forward? Should there be something better than the 'banjo' internally? Wago do something tidy, an external box including connectors, , but our electrician doesn't llke them, and maybe you don't. Does the earth of the swa get connected through? Onoff implies not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, Radian said: Absolutely vital to replace with SWA I will get the crossed welding rods into action, to trace the cable, if that still works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, saveasteading said: Is replacing the swa gland reasonably straight forward? Plenty of Youtube videos show how to do it. No special tools or techniques required. Junior hacksaw, stanley knife and an couple of adjustable spanners. edited to add outdoor electrics should be signed-off by spark! Edited January 4, 2023 by Radian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, Radian said: should be signed-off by spark Understood But he won't will he! When the swa goes in, then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I'll pm you some stuff from an old college book ref fitting the SWA gland. Top tip to use a Pirhana nut instead of the one that comes with the gland. https://www.screwfix.com/p/earthing-nut-20mm-2-pack/77809? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) Ref a new box you can get them with "indents" already in, to aid drilling you should find a 20/25mm holesaw lines up just right and doesn't wander. I'd get a box similarly sized to what you already have. Ditch the silly rubber grommets that come with it and fit proper glands. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/junction-boxes/3659273 I'd terminate all the wires into WAGOs. Edited January 4, 2023 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 32 minutes ago, Onoff said: Ref a new box you can get them with "indents" already in, to aid drilling you should find a 20/25mm holesaw lines up just right and doesn't wander. I'd get a box similarly sized to what you already have. Ditch the silly rubber grommets that come with it and fit proper glands. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/junction-boxes/3659273 I'd terminate all the wires into WAGOs. Seen the Wiska 206 boxes..? Come complete with the Wagos, pre-drilled for M20/1.5 and can also be fitted with a piranha type earth clamp as part of the box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, PeterW said: Seen the Wiska 206 boxes..? Come complete with the Wagos, pre-drilled for M20/1.5 and can also be fitted with a piranha type earth clamp as part of the box Yes but don't they only have 2 entries on a side? Think you'd need to go up to the 1210 to get 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Crap photo but here's one I haven't finished earlier... A plain IP6X box I drilled only in the bottom. Has one incoming armoured that supplies power to lights via the WAGOs. Bottom right is the photocell wires. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Onoff said: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/junction-boxes/3659273 Just put in the first RS order of the year and found they've slapped a minimum £30 order for free delivery! That's a bummer. Had an account with them for over 40 years and never paid a penny for delivery - even if the order was for less than a £1's worth of resistors or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Farnell have been doing this for some time, they call it a handling charge - I save up my orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: I save up my orders. Takes planning and patience though! I'm really going to miss spontaneous purchasing 😢 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 6 hours ago, saveasteading said: Is that SWA actually earthed to the banjo? Been youtubing and reread the whole post . I didn't know about the principle of a gland connection, and can now see that it makes a solid connection to the box. I don't think there is a banjo at all on the existing assembly. Difficult to believe they didn't use brass. If someone could explain why the banjo, or alternative earthing nut, is a good thing then I'd be very interested. I can see why it is sensible on a metal box, but in plastic? doesn't a simple connection strip do enough? I will fix an earthing nut though, and then link it to the junction block. Does the earth from the swa still need connecting? All 3 cables through the bottom, if they fit, using a box which has 3 openings, and the one in screwfix includes terminals (SF 13096) Or a Schneider version, which is a bit smaller (SF 61100). Plus I will need some conduit to lead the light cable underneath. Thanks for the help. Stuff I didn't need to know, until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 14 hours ago, Radian said: Even if the order was for less than a £1's worth of resistors or whatever. I think it was this sort of order they are trying to stop to be fair. They started this a year or two ago. It is a bummer if you only want a £5 of stuff but I can see it from their side too. I always felt guilty buying £3-4 of stuff and would usually find some other things to buy, but the fact you could buy a 60p strip of resistors and it would come Parcelforce the following day was a bit mad, if not brilliant at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Carrerahill said: They started this a year or two ago. That's very odd, the most recent order I placed for under £30 was last May and that was with free delivery. Subsequent orders have coincidentally been for over £30 so I wouldn't have noticed anyway. I agree that it was madness to have no minimum but I've always gone to RS despite their generally higher prices because of this. Suddenly (for me at least) going from £0 to £30 is a bit of a jolt and I'm now looking more at getting components from Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 We buy a lot from RS and they have just introduced the £30 min for free delivery on us. Previously we used the no minimum order value to get components to customers quickly but now we have to send them from here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 I'd always seen RS's pricing as building in the shipping cost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 In no particular order: Don't know your set up but afaic tell the earth's all need to be connected in that box. Then banjo / Pirhana nut to the earth point both ends of the feed cable via a little fly lead. Pirhana nuts are just more "bitey" than traditional gland nuts and brass banjos. You get better earth continuity, less chance of loosening over time. Traditional: Pirhana: They've a smooth or toothed side that'll bite into the box, in the case of a painted metal box the teeth will strip the paint to ensure contact with clean metal. Toothed side: Smooth side: This is an external SWA gland. From the left, the black rubber washer squashes onto the black, pvc outer sheath of the cable. The two rings I'm pointing to. There's only one per assembly but it must go on a certain way or you will struggle to get the armoured strands onto the cone to the left and do everything up: (Just realised I left the rubber boot out of the picture. PUT THE BOOT ON THE CABLE BEFORE YOU ASSEMBLE THE GLAND! 😂 Cut the pointy end off with a sharp Stanley a bit at a time until it's a nice tight, but still slides over the black sheath). As for plastic conduit glands. At the very least and still "wrong" if fitted on top you get glands like this. There's no proper sealing. Even if you glue the conduit in and use a rubber sealing washer it's naff on top. My neighbours was all done in this and the box was swimming: On the flexible conduit side I like these. They just push on and teeth grip the conduit. There are other types where the gland is hinged, folds around the conduit and snaps shut: Just realised why I didn't finish my gate box, didn't have a Pirhana nut! I have now and still need to finish it... I go out of my way to enter from the bottom: (I've got miles of old red sleeving still, I'm using it up!) I plastic primed and spray painted the box lid: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 Got the kit today. There aren't any Piranha fittings in Kent apparently, at SF anyway, but I think i can retrofit it. So banjo method for now. I looked at 2 boxes that had 3 holes on one side, so they can be at the bottom. One was massive, so I got the dearer one which is Schneider. I will report back if there is progress or problems. Currently enjoying the thought that there won't be a power cut while that circuit is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Whereabouts in Kent (roughly)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 Just now, Onoff said: Whereabouts in Kent (roughly)? Nowhere you will have heard of. PM will advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) You'll need an M6 brass nut, bolt and two star washers to attach a suitable ring crimp to the banjo. With the Pirhana nut you just attach the ring crimp to the screw on the side! From there take an earth fly lead and connect to the other 3 earths. The loop of hopefully black flexible conduit, that comes down, round and enters under the box, need to make sure it can't get water into it at the light end, above and act as a hose route into the box! Edited January 5, 2023 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Onoff said: act as a hose route into the box! Good point. I might put a drip hole at the bottom of the conduits. I have white flexi conduit. Is that not suitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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