Russell griffiths Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Evening all, I hope @Nickfromwales isn't to far away. So please read this first bit as it has quit a bearing on why I don't want to spend to much money. The house we live in I would like to eventually knock down so I'm trying to hold it together with gaffa tape and multiple coats of emulsion at the moment, but the wife declared that she could not stand the piddly old shower anymore and it had to go so hence me not wanting to spend a lot of doe on it. What i I need is a mixing valve that can be fitted and maintained from the front, the fear I have is we have exceptionally nard water and the scale is terrible, so I am concerned about fitting something that I Cannot get at if I have a problem, ideally I would like a big face plate that can be removed and any screens or filters removed so it can have a flush out or de scale. The shower head will be located away from the mixer so a bar mixer with flexible hose is no good. Thanks skinflint russ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Are you sure that a replacement shower valve is going to solve the problem? "Piddly" suggests a lack of flow, which might not be solved by a new shower valve. If demolition is an actual prospect why not get something good and use it in the "new house" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 Going to put a pump on,new tray new tiles. Just would like to keep the budget down as it breaks my heart to spend anything on it. Looked at a couple today, first one was £130 second one £230. So was after some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hudson-Reed-Prophecy-2-RRP-199-Shower-Panel-Black-/162565727080?hash=item25d9ac2368:g:ZckAAOSwN2VZT8e1 Something fancy for SWMBO and easy fitting, but only suitable for larger shower cubicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Ok, Capt.Skinflint I take it you have a copper hot water cylinder and its gravity fed from a cold water storage tank ( CWS ) in the attic yea? Well, before polishing those shillings you've been keeping hidden away, consider your actions. To add a pump will suck a small hot water tank empty pretty quick, and the minimum standard when upgrading to a pumped system is to increase the 25 gal tank to a 50 gal tank, FOR STARTERS. That's primarily to get the stored volume up to match the new demand, but it's also to stop the water getting low and stirring crap at the bottom of the tank which will then go an d block all your filters and kill either your pump, your new shower, or both. . Then, lol, consider that you'll need to separate the plumbing to the shower from the rest of the system so it can just pump the shower and nothing else. This will involve fitting a Sussex / similar type flange on the top of the hot water cylinder and feeding the pump with that for hot, then you'll also need to fit a new CWS connection and run new pipe week from that to supply cold to the pump too. Simples eh? How long do you need a pukka shower for, and what will be the new system? Combi / UVC / TS / other ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Evening all, I hope @Nickfromwales isn't to far away. Do you remain convinced that you really wanted @Nickfromwales close by 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Ok captain smarty pants @Nickfromwales am I over complicating things by adding a pump? If I could get away with out it would be good. My cold tank is directly above the bathroom, so can I cut a new hole in the tank for a direct feed to the mixer? Or just T in to a supply line out of the tank. Regarding the hot what does the Sussex flange do. If i T of a hot supply how will this affect the other hot supplies. God i I hope I haven't dug a big hole for myself I ripped out the old shower last night. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 T-ing out off the existing pipe will cause negative pressure in the household pipework, so when the pump kicks in, and water taking the path of least resistance, anyone opening a tap nearby will hear air getting sucked into the tap instead of water coming out Id just buy a very good quality Mira Exel or similar, which will operate well on very low pressure but with ADEQUATE flow, for the interim. That shower then migrates to the new bathroom as it'll cope with both low and the new high pressure system. Spend on the expensive shower and get the pump idea out of your mind, and wallet ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Ok, Capt.Skinflint I take it you have a copper hot water cylinder and its gravity fed from a cold water storage tank ( CWS ) in the attic yea? Well, before polishing those shillings you've been keeping hidden away, consider your actions. To add a pump will suck a small hot water tank empty pretty quick, and the minimum standard when upgrading to a pumped system is to increase the 25 gal tank to a 50 gal tank, FOR STARTERS. That's primarily to get the stored volume up to match the new demand, but it's also to stop the water getting low and stirring crap at the bottom of the tank which will then go an d block all your filters and kill either your pump, your new shower, or both. . Then, lol, consider that you'll need to separate the plumbing to the shower from the rest of the system so it can just pump the shower and nothing else. This will involve fitting a Sussex / similar type flange on the top of the hot water cylinder and feeding the pump with that for hot, then you'll also need to fit a new CWS connection and run new pipe week from that to supply cold to the pump too. Simples eh? How long do you need a pukka shower for, and what will be the new system? Combi / UVC / TS / other ? I thought you were talking to me for a second, that's near exactly my situation. 25gal cws, copper cylinder, shower pump (as you know!) I'm feeling proper flushed that I've got a Surrey Flange at least! @Russell griffiths, a Surrey flange draws off prority / dedicated, deaerated, hot water from the very top of the cylinder. Here's mine, provides direct hot to the pump, cold is direct from the cws that sits above under the roof apex: This is one of the only pumps I found that is accepting of a 25gal cws tank as a minimum. I replaced the New Team one that came with the house and that had died: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 16 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: The house we live in I would like to eventually knock down Snap! Or at least back to a bare shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Seems the replacement for my Varispeed 50 in the pic above now specifies a 50gal min cws: https://new-team-pumps.co.uk/ts-50-shower-pump-plus.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 So if I forget the pump and go and buy one of those eye wateringly expensive Mira mixers, should I still fit a Sussex flange to feed the hot. Cheers russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: So if I forget the pump and go and buy one of those eye wateringly expensive Mira mixers, should I still fit a Sussex flange to feed the hot. Cheers russ. Ideally yes imo. That way the shower gets a guaranteed draw of hot water, not shared with anything else so to speak. I wonder, if with a thermostatic mixer valve and no Surrey flange it's such an issue i.e someone turning on the hot tap elsewhere will detract from the shower feed Does the TMV compensate? The Surrey flange as I said stops you feeding the pump with aerated water which can shorten pump life anyway and be noisy. @Nickfromwales will be along shortly to confirm / admonish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: So if I forget the pump and go and buy one of those eye wateringly expensive Mira mixers, should I still fit a Sussex flange to feed the hot. Cheers russ. Nope. It uses the existing pressure, rather than 'sucks' like a thirsty kid on a milkshake as a pump does. . Link That's free if you think what you were going to chuck down the drain with the pumped option . It's also a fantastic performing shower which will have spares available for the next 15-20 years as Mira have great after sales ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Onoff said: @Nickfromwales will be along shortly to confirm / admonish. Im on it like a tramp on a kebab. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, Onoff said: Does the TMV compensate? Yes. It's part of the anti-scald mechanism that a TMV provides. Flow may speed up / slow down etc but the temp will remain virtually the same until the supplies go beyond the operating requirements, at which point some will stop or run cold ( but never got beyond the set temp ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 52 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Yes. It's part of the anti-scald mechanism that a TMV provides. Flow may speed up / slow down etc but the temp will remain virtually the same until the supplies go beyond the operating requirements, at which point some will stop or run cold ( but never got beyond the set temp ). So that only happens because the wife turns up the hot water temp on the boiler beyond the level it needs to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 27 minutes ago, daiking said: So that only happens because the wife turns up the hot water temp on the boiler beyond the level it needs to be? Nope - usually they go cold when they can't balance the hot / cold differential. Most will take 85c hot input and still manage 42c out, and boilers tend to max out about 75c anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 28 minutes ago, daiking said: So that only happens because the wife turns up the hot water temp on the boiler beyond the level it needs to be? Oh my god you don't let your wife near anything that controls temperature i spend my life walking about in my undercrackers after she started messing with controls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: i spend my life walking about in my undercrackers after she started messing with controls. She probably did it on purpose. Be thankful she still likes the look of you minimally clothed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 16 minutes ago, PeterW said: Nope - usually they go cold when they can't balance the hot / cold differential. Most will take 85c hot input and still manage 42c out, and boilers tend to max out about 75c anyway. I shall experiment later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I really need to retro fit a TMV to the bath...and maybe sink... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, Onoff said: I really need to retro fit a TMV to the bath...and maybe sink... This is something I need to look into for the new house. In our last house all hot water except the kitchen sink went through a main TMV, can this be done instead of TMV on outlet point of showers. Whats the rules on scalding yourself on the bath hot tap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: This is something I need to look into for the new house. In our last house all hot water except the kitchen sink went through a main TMV, can this be done instead of TMV on outlet point of showers. Whats the rules on scalding yourself on the bath hot tap. Lol, this is why she turns the hot water temp up - when she wants to run a bath so its 'quicker'. Edited July 5, 2017 by daiking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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