Oxbow16 Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 Hi I'm going to be having some roof work done. The lead needs replacing and doing properly where a lower roof meets a wall (it slopes down the side of the wall... ASIDE - what's it called where a roof meets a wall like this?). The chap doing it has proposed to put in long overlapping lengths of lead beneath all the slates (I think around 1.5m lengths each). And then lengths of around 1m flashing on top of the slates. All the info and videos I can find say to use small soakers that are the same length as the slates, and sit on top one slate/covered by the next. I'm worried that the way the chap has proposed to do it is wrong, as I can't find anything that recommends doing it like that. In case it changs anything, he is planning to put a bell bead on the wall above the lead. Sorry if I've not explained that very well... It's be a long day! Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 I’d get someone else You are correct Short lengths that finish just short of where each slate is nailed Allowing the next slate to cover and so on Leaving the soakers stepped like the slates 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow16 Posted October 8, 2022 Author Share Posted October 8, 2022 That certainly concurs with all I've read and watched. Thanks for confirming. So that I'm clear though, and just to help me understand it, what would be the problem with having long lengths of lead running under the slates, to act as soakers? Thanks for the super quick reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 Have a look at this guide to good lead work. Easy reading and should help you out. Tells you all about max lengths of lead and the code (thickness) of lead to use and where etc. It' one of my go to guides. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=0CAMQw7AJahcKEwjA-KCI3NH6AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.calderlead.co.uk%2Fuploads%2Fdocumentsearch%2Fid4%2FCalder-GTGLW-210213.pdf&psig=AOvVaw07OgmkkR7N57A4sfbm148e&ust=1665355815925499 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makie Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 9 hours ago, Oxbow16 said: That certainly concurs with all I've read and watched. Thanks for confirming. So that I'm clear though, and just to help me understand it, what would be the problem with having long lengths of lead running under the slates, to act as soakers? Thanks for the super quick reply There is nothing technically wrong with it, that's how it's done most of the time in Scotland. Saying that soakers and stepped flashing looks much better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 9 hours ago, Oxbow16 said: That certainly concurs with all I've read and watched. Thanks for confirming. So that I'm clear though, and just to help me understand it, what would be the problem with having long lengths of lead running under the slates, to act as soakers? Thanks for the super quick reply The worrying thing would be He isn’t saving time or money doing this He just doesn’t understand what the soakers are there for 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow16 Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) To be honest, I think he is planning to try to save time and money. RE the soakers, from what you guys have said, and having watched more videos - taking slates off, cutting individual soakers, and putting them in piece by piece and slate by slate, will be a lot slower and more work than not removing any slates, sliding in a couple of long lengths of lead beneath them, and calling it a day at that. I should have added that the wall is an old stone wall. Not only is it not flat faced, but it doesn't run a straight line either Iit curves a bit). So stepped flashing is not an option. Thanks again for the help. Edited October 9, 2022 by Oxbow16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow16 Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) This is all I've got at the moment, but here's a couple of photos showing what's there.... Edited October 9, 2022 by Oxbow16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow16 Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Individual soakers every time IMO, I hate great lumps of lead showing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow16 Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 Thanks, but just to be clear, for the soakers in his proposed install it wouldn't be showing. It's more than he would b putting in long lengths of lead underneath all the slates. True that there would be flashing visible, but he's got 150mm for that. So with 100mm or so up the wall, there'd barely be any on the slates. Not to mention that due to the lay of the land that part of the roof isn't all too visible anyhow. Ta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 It’s a shame that some of the slates are a bit short, so some lead has to cover that, but as you say, not very visible so no problem eh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Got a photo ..? This sounds like it would be better done with a hidden gutter below the slates and cut into the stonework. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Ok just seen the photos - hidden gutter would be better there and just a clean line of slates cut to fit within an inch or so of the stonework 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow16 Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 I did read about hidden gutters but wasn't sure how appropriate it would be given the way the wall bends. It bulges out as you get toward the apex. Would that not be a problem and make a hidden gutter difficult? The other issue is that there are sarking boards and I'm not sure how close they get to the wall. I'd also need to check how much depth there is until your on top of the purlins, although I suspect there would be enough... Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow16 Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 3 hours ago, makie said: There is nothing technically wrong with it, that's how it's done most of the time in Scotland. @makie - do you mind if I just clarify, seeing as you responded before I posted photos... Now that you can see the job, do you think it would still be ok for the soakers to tuck long lengths of lead in beneath those slates? Most likely without removing or lifting any of them? And just to add, for the soakers he'll be re-using the lead you can see in the photos. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Soakers are in effect another form of hidden gutter. Their job is to catch any water that is not caught by the lead flashing on top of the tiles, most likely blown under by wind. So they still need to form a proper gutter so water flows down and out at the bottom. So there will need to be some form of upstand or turn up in the lead to prevent any such water just running off the side. So I think it highly unlikely you will get the detail right, just by shoving some lengths of lead under the tiles in situ without removing any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 As the above replies, if your roofer thinks he's going to slide 1.5m of lead under the slates without removing them then he's not a roofer but a magician. The slates will need to be removed. I'm assuming this is remedial work? Then this will possibly be due to leaks? Then surely you want to ensure the wood (joists and battens ) are sound before spending money covering them up? If it's leaked inside, then you can be sure it was leaking for a long time before it came inside. As it's stone I'd opt for individual soakers as the upstands can be dressed individually to the stonework, same for the stepped flashing. That said a grp hidden gutter would work well with some stone dressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makie Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 6 hours ago, Oxbow16 said: @makie - do you mind if I just clarify, seeing as you responded before I posted photos... Now that you can see the job, do you think it would still be ok for the soakers to tuck long lengths of lead in beneath those slates? Most likely without removing or lifting any of them? And just to add, for the soakers he'll be re-using the lead you can see in the photos. Many thanks Long lengths no. My comment was in reference to a Watergate slated in (see picture), not long soakers. It would be near impossible to do what your roofer is proposing and I doubt it would work. No matter what happens that lead can't be used for soakers. Soakers should be code 3 with those slates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow16 Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) Thanks for all the additional comments and replies. Really helpful stuff. Definitely won't get him to do it then. Might have some more questions in the future about exactly how to do it, but will make a new thread should that need arise. Thanks again everyone PS - What a lovely looking roof/wall Edited October 9, 2022 by Oxbow16 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow16 Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 Another question if I may please.... Do you think the removed lead in the photos would be suitable for the flashing? It's 240mm and Code 4 (I think), but a bit chewed up on one side from where I removed it from the cement fillet. It's also a but curved and bent. I can get a better photo of the lead if that would help assess? My thinking was to have the soakers done in new Code 3 - as suggested - and re-use this if possible. But if not I'll get new for the flashing too and stop being so tight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Find a decent scrap dealer and weigh it in - I got about 60% of the cost of new lead when I did my last lot. And keep every offcut..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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