Kitchen fitted in conservatory query

[Riley99]

Good morning thank you for letting me join! Please can I ask a question we had a modular lean to light weight building added to the rear of our house 3 years ago. We fitted a full kitchen in there as advertised a cheap alternative to an extension etc. we are in the process of selling and our buyer said where’s the building regs we said it didn’t need any so went to the council and got building inspector out who initially said we needed to meet building regs with footings dpc etc… He sent an email saying it could be classed as exempt if we added external doors had a separate heating unit and used as the common definition of a conservatory.

does anyone have any ideas on what we need to do I can’t get hold of him and need to know if we have to take out the kitchen please? Everywhere I have looked it says you can have a kitchen in a conservatory as long as it meets permitted build and the above about doors etc.

thank you very much for reading my long post!

[Redbeard]

Hi and welcome.

 

Your BCO is right. All you need is here: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/conservatories/building-regulations

 

There is no stipulation AFAICS as to what you can put in a 'conservatory'. Therefore the presence of kitchen paraphernalia is immaterial as long as you have the compliant doors, glazing, elecs and independednt heating 'system'.

[Riley99]

Thank you so much for your reply that is great news!

[Redbeard]

It may not be that great, as there are other views 'out there' on t'internet. Someone I know had this done, although they also had no separating doors, which was definitely non-compliant. As I said, *as far as I can see* there are no stipulations, but others may have other views. I hope you can get it sorted to the satisfaction of your buyer.

[Riley99]

Ok thank you we will wait and see what the building inspector says it seems a grey area with the kitchen in there.

[ProDave]

Details are a bit lacking, but my understanding from what you are describing is you build a conservatory under permitted development without building regs approval, which probably was not needed for a conservatory.

 

BUT you removed what presumably was an exterior door from the house to the conservatory?  "it could be classed as exempt if we added external doors had a separate heating unit and used as the common definition of a conservatory."

 

And then you fitted a kitchen into it.

 

So you have ended up with a sub standard "extension" that does not meet building regs for an "extension" and must leak heat like it id going out of fashion?

 

If there is a proper external door between the house and the "extension" then it complies with the definition of a conservatory, but it would still be a cold miserable kitchen in winter?

 

Perhaps you will clarify exactly what you have?

 

It is a shame you have contacted building control about this as you have by doing that invalidated one solution to this which is to buy an indemnity policy.

[Riley99]

Thank you for your response, This is what we have it’s a fully insulated lean-to (see photo) Made a big mistake by going to the council especially when we could have got an indemnity insurance but followed advice from estate agent to satisfy the buyer. In hind sight should have gone through the solicitors. We have now put in double glazed external doors between the house and the lean-to.

Hopefully having a kitchen in the conservatory is ok?

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Riley99
Name of company was on photo

[ProDave]

"Our modular insulated panel system boasts an excellent u-value of 0.022w/m2k"

 

A typical passive house might achieve 0.1w/m2k and be considered good.  This is claiming 1/4 the heat loss through the wall than a typical passive house.  They loose all credibility in my book.

 

It is as far as building regs are concerned a conservatory.  Even if it was an "extension" built under permitted development it would have required building regs approval.

 

the only solution I see for the sale is re instate an "outside door" between the house and extension and hope the buyers accept it as a conservatory.

[Riley99]

Ok thank you very much for your help. 

[AliG]

11 minutes ago, ProDave said:

"Our modular insulated panel system boasts an excellent u-value of 0.022w/m2k"

I think it is probably 0.22 as it looks like they are built using maybe 100mm PIR in both the walls and roof. 100mm PIR with little else would give 0.22 U-value

 

A conservatory does not need a building warrant if separated by outside doors.

 

But moving your kitchen does need a building warrant if it involves moving plumbing and/or the extractor fan.

[MJNewton]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

It is as far as building regs are concerned a conservatory

Ah, but is it? Using the definition from this LABC Guidance Note it has to have at least 50% glazing in the walls (seems okay from the photo) *and* 75% glazing in the roof (but this one looks solid?)…

 

Edit: I missed that Building Control have already been involved so it’s down to them how they interpret legislation that uses undefined terms, and if they say it’s a conservatory (or could be!) then I suppose it is!

Edited September 19, 2022 by MJNewton

[Temp]

13 hours ago, Riley99 said:

got building inspector out who initially said we needed to meet building regs with footings dpc etc… He sent an email saying it could be classed as exempt if we added external doors had a separate heating unit and used as the common definition of a conservatory.

 

You probably don't have time but.. 

 

What foundations does it have? One option might be to ask the BCO if he would accept a surveyors report (possibly from the supplier) saying the foundations are adequate for the construction, and that there is some sort of damp proofing built in and U-values meet building regulations etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Redbeard]

Very much agree with @ProDave. While the buyer may accept that it complies (or more correctly is exempt from some bits) it does not alter the fact that the thinking behind an exempt conservatory is that it is effectively 'outside' (hence the external doors between it and the house and the separately-controlled heating (so that it does not act as a heat-dump for the C htg). It will still be cold/expensive to heat and (depending on the orientation) possibly blazing hot at times too.

 

Yes, it does not fill you with confidence when a seller does not know the difference between a lambda value (W/mK) and a U value (W/m2K).

[Mr Punter]

If you have an estate house built pre 1990, there is a good chance the lean-to garden room will be better insulated than the rest of the house.

[Riley99]

Ok thank you very much for your help. 
a little update from building control we have been told kitchen facilities need to be present in the main dwelling and not in an exempt extension. we can leave the kitchen as is in the lean to but need to make the now utility back into a room with kitchen facilities. I wonder if a table top mini oven would satisfy as washing facilities are already present? 

[Big Jimbo]

Or a simple microwave. I know plenty of people who can only cook by the "Ping" method.

[PeterW]

2 hours ago, Riley99 said:

little update from building control we have been told kitchen facilities need to be present in the main dwelling and not in an exempt extension

Ask them where it says that in the Building Regulations .. as long as the room it is in has adequate ventilation to meet BRegs then I can’t see where that would come from.

[MJNewton]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Ask them where it says that in the Building Regulations .. as long as the room it is in has adequate ventilation to meet BRegs then I can’t see where that would come from.

I don’t think a conservatory can be considered a ‘room’ as it is not part of the dwelling (hence not being subject to building regs).

[PeterW]

17 minutes ago, MJNewton said:

I don’t think a conservatory can be considered a ‘room’ as it is not part of the dwelling (hence not being subject to building regs).

That is my point though - there is nothing in the regs that says a house has to have a kitchen, or where it is in the house ..?

[Ferdinand]

On 19/09/2022 at 16:40, ProDave said:

"Our modular insulated panel system boasts an excellent u-value of 0.022w/m2k"

 

A typical passive house might achieve 0.1w/m2k and be considered good.  This is claiming 1/4 the heat loss through the wall than a typical passive house.  They loose all credibility in my book.

 

It is as far as building regs are concerned a conservatory.  Even if it was an "extension" built under permitted development it would have required building regs approval.

 

the only solution I see for the sale is re instate an "outside door" between the house and extension and hope the buyers accept it as a conservatory.

 

I think you've both got the wrong end of this stick. 

 

0.022w/m2k is the *material* U-value of PIR, so I think they are telling you about the material not the actual panel value, and being quite misleading in their blurb.

 

So if it is 100mm PIR (which would be very generous for a panel system), that will be a u-value of 0.22 for the wall (ignoring the other elements), which is good for an insulated conservatory, but will not give comfortable year round temperatures unless shading, heating, cooling and ventilation are right.

 

F 

[Ferdinand]

Putting minimal kitchen facilities in the utility is a good call.

 

When I did one a few years ago, the independent heater was an extra radiator and an isolation valve in the water pipe. May not meet current requirements - no idea.

  

[Riley99]

Thank you very much to you all for your help will update once the building control officer has decided what I can do.