Dave's Balcony

[ProDave]

So tangible progress today.  First assembly of the deck frame.

 

this has been a work in progress for a couple of weeks.  As soon as I got the timber I cut it all to length so I could get it in the dry, in the static caravan.  And then I have been painting, and painting and painting.  Each joist will be getting 2 coats.  It takes several hours to dry, so all I can do is one coat in the morning, and then later in the day turn it over to paint the other side. And there is room only to do 2 joists at a time.  So that's a throughput of 1 painted joist per day.

 

Today there was finally enough painted joists to put most of it together to see if it all fits.

 

 

 

That's the first time it has all been put together.  Phew, i got the measurements right.

 

The 2 missing long joists are still in the paint shop.  The two end joists and most of the remaining dwangs (nogins) are still to start being painted.

 

I have now dismantled it again and re assembled up on the scaffold, jacked it all up into position on packers got it into the exact position above the post support pads and then marked the holes through to the wall ready for drilling and trying my spacer idea.

 

TIP:  I am fixing to the wall with M12 long coach screws.  I have drilled 13mm holes through the wall joist for this.  I find a standard sharpie marker pen is a perfect snug fit in a 13mm hole, perfect to mark through all the hole positions onto the wall.

[ProDave]

More progress today.  Attaching the frame to the wall.

 

Drill a hole in the wall, drilling through the wood fibre EWI until the solid ring beam is reached.  Insert an aluminium spacer and a long coach screw will then fix the timber to the wall.

 

 

On final assembly that gets lots and lots and lots of sealant in and around that hole.  The very good news is the wood fibre I was drilling into is completely bone dry.  First time I have done such an exploration since it was put up something like 5 years ago.

 

The spacers were made from aluminium tube, cut to length roughly with a hacksaw and then faced off on my vintage lathe.

 

 

I needed to drill a pilot hole for the coach screws into the solid wood.  The drill bit is a lot smaller than the bore of the spacers and I wanted the hole somewhere close to the middle.  Time to improvise, a "jig" made from a spare sealant tube nozzle and duck tape.

 

 

And here is the basic start of the frame now attached to the wall, the outer edge is supported on packing blocks from the scaffold at the moment.

 

 

 

Next thing needed is the posts, and for that I am awaiting post feet. I think my neighbour who runs a steel cladding business is going to make them for me.

 

Meanwhile back to painting the last bits of the frame.......

 

[Onoff]

What's the paint that's going on the timber?

[ProDave]

27 minutes ago, Onoff said:

What's the paint that's going on the timber?

Valspar Garden Exterior paint.  The one that the big orange DIY store sells that they mix to your colour while you wait.  It was the only way to get paint for the cladding of the sun room in the same colour as decking paint with a wide choice of colours.  We have chosen "Willow Green" as you can see a light green colour.

 

HOWEVER.  We have problems with the decking paint flaking off.  Watch out for a separate thread on that as it goes beyond the balcony topic  I will take some pictures and start that thread later today.

[ProDave]

That's a bit more done.  The endless painting has finished (for now) and all the pieces are assembled.

 

 

Taken from inside the sun room looking up, hence the odd reflections looking through the glass.

 

Awaiting post feet now, I am still not sure if my neighbour is making them or not, I have not heard.  Once I have the post feet I can put the posts up, fit the last 2 end joists and remove all the packing and temporary props presently holdin the frame up.

 

Now I turn my thoughts to posts for the balustrades, I think I am settled on 4" posts, which will dictate a wider handrail on top probably just a bit of painted decking board?

[JohnMo]

Looks good, nice usable size.

[joe90]

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

Now I turn my thoughts to posts for the balustrades, I think I am settled on 4" posts, which will dictate a wider handrail on top probably just a bit of painted decking board?

This is what I did on my brothers decking recently with 4” posts and using standard handrail, the spindles can be replaced with glass if that’s what you want. (My brother is yet to put tops and acorn finials on)

 

[ProDave]

How did you fix the rails to the posts?  screws through the post into the end grain of the rail?

 

I will probably be using steel rigging wire.

[joe90]

7 minutes ago, ProDave said:

screws through the post into the end grain of the rail?

Yes, two per rail (to stop twisting), countersunk into post with timber plugs to cover, 6” screws approx 3” into rail.

[Radian]

Decking handrail brackets??

[JohnMo]

The structural details from our structural engineer

 

[JohnMo]

Be careful with fixings in the end grain as the pull out resistance is low.

[Onoff]

8 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Be careful with fixings in the end grain as the pull out resistance is low.

 

Aren't some screws designed to counter this to some extent? Agreed not the best method. 

 

As I said on Zoot's thread I would route pockets in the underside of the top rail for the spindles to slot into. Would act as a "band" around the spindle and help guard against splitting. Then screw from above and plug. I'd likely glue the joint too. 

[ProDave]

10 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Be careful with fixings in the end grain as the pull out resistance is low.

To pull out, the posts would have to spring apart.  Not going to happen with steel wire "balustrades" tensioning the posts together.

[joe90]

10 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Be careful with fixings in the end grain as the pull out resistance is low.

Hence the reason I used 6” screws with at least 3” into the end grain and two of them (I don’t like brackets showing 🤷‍♂️).

[Radian]

22 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Hence the reason I used 6” screws with at least 3” into the end grain and two of them (I don’t like brackets showing 🤷‍♂️).

The brackets don't show because the handrail has a routed rebate for the tops of the spindles and the bracket fits up inside it. At least this is how most off-the-shelf handrails are supplied. Spacers then separate the spindles.

[ProDave]

Yesterday evening my neighbour knocked on the door with two post feet.

 

Today I have fitted them.  Studs set in the blocks with resin, nuts not yet tightened down until it has had a good while to set properly.

 

[ProDave]

That's the posts in place, mounted in their post feet, and fixed to the frame with coach bolts.

 

 

 

Just the end joists to fit then the long M12 studs and nuts through the two end joists and through the posts.

 

For the first time the balcony is standing on it's own two posts, all the temporary support packing has gone.

 

One issue.  it needs some diagonal corner to corner bracing on the frame.  As it is, it is just a little wobbly.  Adding the decking planks will stiffen it up but I would rather it was solid before the planks are fitted.  Ideas please?  I could strap say 50 by 25mm battens underneath, but it is so visible from below I feel that would look a bodge.  So my idea is two lots of diagonal tensioning with yacht rigging wire that could be drilled through the joists or fitted near the top and notched into the joists.  any better ideas?

[ProDave]

A bit more done today, the first chance I have had to do anything on my own house since our break last week.

 

I now have the diagonal bracing wires as discussed before to stiffen the structure, and the final end joists fitted including bolting through the posts.  So it is now a solid, self supporting structure.

 

 

 

 

The bracing wire is not as expected.  As soon as we got back I ordered a set of the balustrade wire as discussed above to try it out as the bracing wire.  Only to find what I had ordered was coming from China and would take at least 3 weeks to get here.  Amazon do not make it as clear as ebay that what you are ordering is outside the UK.  So what I have used is galvanised aerial lashing wire and hooks, what you normally see strapped round a chimney holding an aerial bracket in place.  I had some spare so this saved me waiting for the other stuff.

 

I will be taking the scaffold down soon and doing the remainder working from the balcony structure itself, mainly to stop my ageing boards sitting out in the rain any longer than they have to and get them back into dry storage.

[saveasteading]

This sort of cabling and accessories are available from stock from boat specialists. 

[ProDave]

8 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

This sort of cabling and accessories are available from stock from boat specialists. 

Yes, at marine prices, which would make custom glass panels look good value for money.

 

The frame diagonal tensioning wire will be under the deck boards so not very visible so it just has to work, not look pretty.

[saveasteading]

14 minutes ago, ProDave said:

, at marine prices

I got a stack for tensioning sports netting and it was not expensive.  If I could remember where I would tell...interweb , Southampton?

[ProDave]

Scaffold gone, here it is, the balcony frame completed.  Just the decking boards and handrail to add.

 

 

[markc]

Love the chunky look and inset posts:)

[Radian]

Looking good! Are the little diagonal braces at the top of the posts really necessary with the deck bolted to the wall? (sorry if this has been asked before)