Ferdinand Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I'm just having a look at the Octopus Outgoing Agile smart tariff, following it being (I think) flagged up by @tommy12398. It pays for export at a rate based on the predicted wholesale rate for the next day. Here is the detailed FAQ: https://octopus.energy/blog/outgoing/ The registration process is slightly involved. According to the FAQ, for people on FITs you keep the FIT generation payments, and only the export element is replaced. That seems like a good option for someone like me who does not have a divert device or suitable load, especially at current wholesale prices. I am currently on 50% deemed export at a low price. The alternative to Agile Export is Fixed Export, which pays 7.5p per unit actually exported. Does anyone have experience or views? We used to describe "using the grid like a battery". This seems to be "using the grid like a divert device", and getting paid nearly the same as the money saved by diverting the export. I'm interested in how long the Agile Outgoing tariff has been around - does anyone know? Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Interesting. I think this offering has changed since I looked into it a while back. My recollection is that you couldn't previously sign up for this if you received the feed-in tariff. Withdrawing from the feed-in tariff concerns me slightly. Do they say anywhere whether you can re-join in the future. If that's not possible, there's a bit of a risk if Octopus stops offering this or changes the payments so they're less than the feed-in tariff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 50 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: I'm just having a look at the Octopus Outgoing Agile smart tariff, It used to be that you had to be on the Agile Incoming Tariff to get the ‘Outgoing’ tariff. Has that changed? The half hourly changing Incoming Tariff can be brutal, I was on it over the last winter (when, of course, there was very little ‘outgoing’) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 21 minutes ago, Russdl said: It used to be that you had to be on the Agile Incoming Tariff to get the ‘Outgoing’ tariff. Has that changed? The half hourly changing Incoming Tariff can be brutal, I was on it over the last winter (when, of course, there was very little ‘outgoing’) I'd welcome your comment son the FAQ linked. It says (which sounds like the condition does not apply): Quote Do I need to be on a special tariff for my energy consumption? No, Outgoing Octopus is independent of your regular consumption tariff. Currently, you can't be on both Outgoing Octopus AND Octopus Go, our electricity consumption tariff designed for electric vehicle drivers. We've made this decision because both are such incredibly good value tariffs that it would be unsustainable for us as a business – the equivalent of letting people buying goods in a shop using a "3 for 2" offer and then bringing them back for a full price refund! The combination of Outgoing and Agile works really well and offers potential for great savings. You can choose to be on Octopus Go and join our new SEG tariff for Outgoing, offering 4.1p / kWh for your export – just get in touch with our team to take this option. If it is as your describe for the previous arrangement, one needs to consider what can constitute an insurance policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, jack said: Interesting. I think this offering has changed since I looked into it a while back. My recollection is that you couldn't previously sign up for this if you received the feed-in tariff. Withdrawing from the feed-in tariff concerns me slightly. Do they say anywhere whether you can re-join in the future. If that's not possible, there's a bit of a risk if Octopus stops offering this or changes the payments so they're less than the feed-in tariff. The FIT has three elements: Generation Payments. Deemed or Actual export payments. Money saved by self-consumption. The FAQ says clearly that you lose the export payments because that is what Octopus are paying for, and keep the Generation Payments. This is the kind of Gift Horse I want to consider - currently it looks like a one way bet at today's high prices. It is not clear whether you can opt back in to deemed export payments afterwards, but if Octopus are paying me around 5-8x the FIT export payments for a time that is quite a small downside. Especially with my lack of a divert device. Quote Under FiT guidelines, you get paid for being a generator, and paid for whatever you export. You won’t be able to receive FiT export payments whilst also being on the Outgoing Octopus tariff. However, you will still be able to receive your generation payments. When you sign up to the Outgoing Octopus, you will be required to opt out of your deemed export payments from your existing FiT supplier (but there’s no requirement to switch your FiT contract to Octopus.) For new installations (that is, after the FiT closure date of 1/4/2019) we’ll still require a copy of your Microgeneration Certificate Scheme (MSC) certification in order to get you onto the tariff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: The FAQ says clearly that you lose the export payments because that is what Octopus are paying for, and keep the Generation Payments. Yes, that's the component I'm referring to. It would be a shame to lose those permanently and then have Octopus withdraw this tariff in the near future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 26 minutes ago, jack said: Yes, that's the component I'm referring to. It would be a shame to lose those permanently and then have Octopus withdraw this tariff in the near future. Hmmm. My G2 Smart Meter is telling me I have used (ie imported) 53 kWh and exported 208 kWh since it was installed around 25 July. That usage is plus self-generated units, and the solar panels are currently very dirty. That very low electricity use could be a useful hedge against Agile Incoming going beserk, if I am required to take it up. I have both cooking and one of my showers on gas, and the other electric. Getting more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 With the original FiTs, all income was tax free. That may not be the case if you sell to Octopus. I would wait to see if Octopus buys Bulb. Lots of debt to recover. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: With the original FiTs, all income was tax free. That may not be the case if you sell to Octopus. I would wait to see if Octopus buys Bulb. Lots of debt to recover. Is that debt Octopus being responsible for paying what Bulb owes the Government, or money owed to Octopus by eg Bulb's customers, or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Ferdinand said: Is that debt Octopus being responsible for paying what Bulb owes the Government, or money owed to Octopus by eg Bulb's customers, or something else? Probably all of the above. All those 'challenger' suppliers had crap business plans, just Del Boy market traders. I suspect that Octopus are hoping to get huge grants from the government to keep the lights on. That is probably the best way to reduce the price, no mucking about with tax rebate, grants, price capping. Just agree on a price i.e. 30p kWh for electric and 10p for gas. 30p a day for standing charge. Then the government can top up the difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: I suspect that Octopus are hoping to get huge grants from the government to keep the lights on. Yup. I don't see any other way around this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: Probably all of the above. All those 'challenger' suppliers had crap business plans, just Del Boy market traders. I suspect that Octopus are hoping to get huge grants from the government to keep the lights on. That is probably the best way to reduce the price, no mucking about with tax rebate, grants, price capping. Just agree on a price i.e. 30p kWh for electric and 10p for gas. 30p a day for standing charge. Then the government can top up the difference. Sensibly simple. I don't see the standing charge being that low, though - it is supposed to cover the costs of energy company busts etc. I would freeze the cap, and finance energy companies through either a loan/payback scheme to cover the medium term, or some combination including grants. It might be reasonable to hike corporation tax for the period for companies taking part, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: might be reasonable to hike corporation tax for the period for companies taking part, too. Or abolish it to keep costs down. Not sure how much CT the domestic supply companies have paid, they all claim to loose money on supplying homes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 One of the interesting aspects of Octopus Agile is the ability to integrate it with other ‘smart’ devices. This could allow you to set devices up to look ahead at the cheapest rate window for the next day and automatically run the appliance then. It has a lot of potential for the kind of people that are engaged with this sort of stuff. Most aren’t though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 Just now, Kelvin said: One of the interesting aspects of Octopus Agile is the ability to integrate it with other ‘smart’ devices. This could allow you to set devices up to look ahead at the cheapest rate window for the next day and automatically run the appliance then. It has a lot of potential for the kind of people that are engaged with this sort of stuff. Most aren’t though. Suspect we need to be distinguishing between Octopus Agile and Octopus Outgoing Agile, or this may get confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Suspect we need to be distinguishing between Octopus Agile and Octopus Outgoing Agile, or this may get confusing. Good point. My assumption is that with the outgoing Agile Octopus you also get the agility and smart device integration benefits. I’ve not read the FAQ for a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 Octopus Outgoing T&C. Not very edited ! octopus-outgoing-tc.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 15, 2022 Author Share Posted August 15, 2022 Octopus Outgoing applied for, and I found the email from my installer confirming that the DNO had confirmed the install. Watch this space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 OK. So reply recieved. Octopus do indeed want a copy of the DNO notification letter - which is the thing to confirm that your feeding of power to the grid has been accepted by them. My DNO Western Power are being helpful and it is a usual query. We shall see. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Ferdinand said: OK. So reply recieved. Octopus do indeed want a copy of the DNO notification letter - which is the thing to confirm that your feeding of power to the grid has been accepted by them. My DNO Western Power are being helpful and it is a usual query. We shall see. F Is that the only paperwork they have asked for? Or have they also asked for am MCS certificate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, ProDave said: Is that the only paperwork they have asked for? Or have they also asked for am MCS certificate? It could be a good precedent to set if they stopped asking for the MCS certs. It would open things up a bit and as long as approved equipment was being used, which it should be if sold in the UK for UK use (I know some will not) then it could encourage others to get solar without feeling railroaded into a MCS approved contractor. That would perhaps reduce costs for all. I did know that payments were possible without MCS cert, but it was more difficult. Maybe finally they are coming round to the whole thing and being more sensible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, ProDave said: Is that the only paperwork they have asked for? Or have they also asked for am MCS certificate? I supplied the MCS Installation Cert with the application, as I already have that. I tried the "we have informed the DNO" email as Plan B for the other one, but they have come back and asked for the original - which I do not have. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Exactly the same issue. How to solve the problem? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 3 hours ago, ToughButterCup said: Exactly the same issue. How to solve the problem? According to the helpdesk at the DNO, they found my installation details and dates etc whilst we were talking, and he phoned up the relevant team to see if he could send me a copy of the DNO Notification Confirmation letter on the spot. They were closed, so he has emailed them to ask for one to be sent AM tomorrow. And he has given me their phone no for if I don't hear by 10am. Failing all of that, Plan B is for them to generate a new one, and Plan C would perhaps be for me to re-register. Hopefully I get a nice email tomorrow early. This was a familiar scenario, so I guess they have a way to deal with it, and that it should become more efficient over time. My surmise is that Octopus are demanding at the front end of the applicaton, as they have found that it ends up in the soup without full proven details if they don't. F 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 24, 2022 Author Share Posted August 24, 2022 The copy of my letter sent to the installer in 2015, he has arrived from the DNO. Bloody good service from Western Power Distribution. I only phoned them yesterday after receiving an email from Octopussy at 3:15pm yesterday that they needed the original. F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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