Order windows before building

[Mr Blobby]

I'm told that Internorm have a 6 month lead time for aluclad upvc and that I should order windows now before building my block house even starts.  But what about sizing the windows? How is that done if there's no house to measure?

 

My architect tells me that formers are used to create a dummy reveal for the bricklayer's to build against to get the window sizing correct.  I've not seen this before, is this correct, and anyone got any pictures?

 

(have told architect not to assume that internorm are the only horse in the race)

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Mr Blobby

[JohnMo]

Why not look elsewhere, we found a local manufacturer, windows made to our spec from scratch.  

[Mr Blobby]

27 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Why not look elsewhere, we found a local manufacturer, windows made to our spec from scratch.  

 

Good point. I think here in Northern Ireland choices are limited.  We also want external blinds so easiest to order with windows I think.

I'm open to suggestions. 

 

Anyone have Gaulhofer aluclad upvc with external blinds?  Or are the Gaulhofer external blinds available only with the timber framed windows?

 

Are these window formers really a thing?

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Mr Blobby

[nod]

Formers are used on most sites now 

From enquiries I’ve made It tends to be the budget windows that do the formers 

If your window company do these You can push on 

[Mr Blobby]

7 minutes ago, nod said:

 

From enquiries I’ve made It tends to be the budget windows that do the formers 

 

 

Not internorm then!  I'd assumed that the former would be some kind of temporary window frame to build around, is that about right?

Edited July 8, 2022 by Mr Blobby

[nod]

I didn’t get that far 

There ridiculous quote put me off 

59k

Its not costing me that to build the house 😂

Edited July 8, 2022 by nod

[joe90]

Dead easy to create a “false” window or former for the brickies to build around in timber, just make sure the dimensions are accurate.

[Mr Blobby]

19 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Dead easy to create a “false” window or former for the brickies to build around in timber, just make sure the dimensions are accurate.

 

What about cavity closers to make the formers like this...  https://www.eurocell.co.uk/data/downloads/eurocell cavalok brochure_lr.pdf

Good idea or oversold crap?

[joth]

Are you lining the walls? I expect the best path depends on the exact detailing around the windows.

We ordered windows off-plan (for a part retrofit, part extension, mix of brick and timber construction - so even more risky) and the main contractor just built all openings (or adjusted existing ones) to match what had been ordered. We lined internally with OSB and the OSB went right the way into the window reveals, and the window frames mounted inside the OSB boxes. This gave a little wriggle room, as the box could be packed out a bit where the brickies had been overgenerous in the opening. 

 

We had a million questions back and forth with architect/building/internorm about whether a given number was the "rough" vs "boxed" vs "finished" opening dimensions (especially windows that had brickwork on to one edge and timber frame around the others) but it all worked out perfectly in the end!

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by joth

[dpmiller]

and remember we do check reveals over here like Scotland so make sure you're sizing the right skin.

[rh2205]

We ordered off plan for a retrofit/extension & did the osb fix in a similar fashion. I think our builder maybe gave himself some wiggle room as he did the measurements for our own supply of windows direct from manufacturer so even more risky as we had no come back to anyone as it wasn’t even the builder fitting them but another approved contractor. It was the best way from the time saving side so we were ok with it & nothing went particularly badly.

[Miek]

8 hours ago, Mr Blobby said:

 

What about cavity closers to make the formers like this...  https://www.eurocell.co.uk/data/downloads/eurocell cavalok brochure_lr.pdf

Good idea or oversold crap?

I'm using Cavalok closers,  300mm cavity. Got them premade from Subframes.  They work . I ordered windows off the drawings and did a lot of double checking. 

 

They are not load bearing however so don't sit the windows down on  them.  I'm going to hang the windows from their sides with metal straps. 

 

[craig]

10 hours ago, Mr Blobby said:

Gaulhofer aluclad upvc with external blinds?  Or are the Gaulhofer external blinds available only with the timber framed windows?

Yes and available on both 😉
 

Edit: timescales are roughly 8 to 12 weeks, order dependant.

Edited July 8, 2022 by craig

[saveasteading]

Nordan ordered this week. 12 weeks.

[Mr Blobby]

On 08/07/2022 at 14:50, dpmiller said:

and remember we do check reveals over here like Scotland so make sure you're sizing the right skin.

 

I'd really like check reveals.  Architect is less enthusiastic.

 

Not sure if check reveals would work with external blinds 🤔.  Anyone done this?

 

 

 

 

[craig]

You would use check reveals, you need an unobstructed opening, so that the guide rails and the box can be attached. 
 

You could but they’d most likely present problems.

 

However, hiding the rails and box is the whole idea behind it. Which is achieved with your external finishing.

[Eric]

Internorm are 25 weeks for aluclad upvc now, mine were ordered in may.

[Mr Blobby]

35 minutes ago, craig said:

You would use check reveals, you need an unobstructed opening, so that the guide rails and the box can be attached. 
 

 

Do you mean 'you would not use check reveals'  I can see how the guide rails wither side of the window would need to be at the width of the blind wich is likely the width of the window?

 

35 minutes ago, craig said:

You could but they’d most likely present problems.

 

However, hiding the rails and box is the whole idea behind it. Which is achieved with your external finishing.

 

So we think the blind box would go in the outer leaf, which would need to be 140 block to match the (modulo P) blind box depth.  The outer leaf would be constructed higher than the inner leaf to accomodate the blind box height.  Like this:

 

 

So the wndow formers on the South/west windows with external blinds would be different heights for inner/outer leaf of course.

AFAICS check reveals wouldn't work at the sides because the blinds require the full width of the window?

[dpmiller]

have you discussed this with the BCO?

[craig]

Different systems, different requirements. Roma system, is 20mm narrower than the width of the window. It allows a check reveal but it does mean everything has to be spot on.

[Mr Blobby]

23 hours ago, dpmiller said:

have you discussed this with the BCO?

 

Good point. Will do.

 

[Mr Blobby]

On 10/07/2022 at 14:48, dpmiller said:

have you discussed this with the BCO?

 

Yes, they have this detail already.

[Mr Blobby]

On 08/07/2022 at 21:43, Miek said:

 

They are not load bearing however so don't sit the windows down on  them.  I'm going to hang the windows from their sides with metal straps. 

 

 

Where the cavities are closed, and the window is in the cavity then what do you attach the straps to? The inner leaf reveal?

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Mr Blobby

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Mr Blobby said:

what do you attach the straps to? The inner leaf reveal?

Nordan have shown us to fix metal straps to the sides of the frames, then bring them interally and screw to the (stone) reveal. Then they have to be concealed. Surprisingly they don't supply straps,  and a helpful fitter showed us that he seems to use any old strap that is handy. 

But then to use expanding foam to really take the load as well as seal.

[Mr Blobby]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Nordan have shown us to fix metal straps to the sides of the frames, then bring them interally and screw to the (stone) reveal. Then they have to be concealed. Surprisingly they don't supply straps,  and a helpful fitter showed us that he seems to use any old strap that is handy. 

But then to use expanding foam to really take the load as well as seal.

 

Thanks for this.  Others on this forum have attached the window to the outer leaf of a cavity bllock construction, which I like but I think would eliminate the cavity closers.  Which is probably not an issue.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Mr Blobby