Columns for 2 IBC tanks stacked

[JohnBishop]

Hi All,

    I hope you are doing well in these strange times.

I am thinking about putting two IBC 1000 litre tanks on top of each other when full it would be 2000kg but I don't want to put them just on the floor but also conserve the the energy at put them at a certain height so I get some water pressure out of it.

I think to put them about 1 meter high on an existing concrete floor.

I was thinking about 4 columns made of 2 bricks.

The tanks have a steel or hardened plastic base that should handle the load when stacked, I have seen it.

What do you think?
Is there any load calculator so I can calculate if these 4 simple columns are sufficient or do I need a 5th column in the centre or some reinforced concrete columns instead?

Best regards

[Conor]

A general guide would be MAX of  3N/mm² load capacity for basic bricks, blocks etc. That would mean for 2000kg, you want at least 150mm² of surface area supporting that weight. 4 brick columns more than enough. This all assumes your concrete floor is sound and solid. Might want to set on some paving slabs to spread the load out a bit.

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Conor

[Russell griffiths]

Brickwork will be too weak, a stack of bricks is strong in compression so will take the weight, no problem, but a good knock on a corner will have it tipping over. 
I would use 50x 50 angle iron. 
or just get a 2000 ltr round tank. 
I had a 3000ltr round tank and the pressure from the tap at the bottom was incredible. 

[JohnBishop]

  

3 hours ago, Conor said:

A general guide would be MAX of  3N/mm² load capacity for basic bricks, blocks etc. That would mean for 2000kg, you want at least 150mm² of surface area supporting that weight. 4 brick columns more than enough. This all assumes your concrete floor is sound and solid. Might want to set on some paving slabs to spread the load out a bit.

 

Good idea with the paving slabs. I think I could use 8 slabs to help spread the load on the top for steel base and on the bottom for the concrete.

Edited May 31, 2022 by JohnBishop

[JohnBishop]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Brickwork will be too weak, a stack of bricks is strong in compression so will take the weight, no problem, but a good knock on a corner will have it tipping over. 
I would use 50x 50 angle iron. 
or just get a 2000 ltr round tank. 
I had a 3000ltr round tank and the pressure from the tap at the bottom was incredible. 

Thanks for your point.

I mean this is a setup purely for drinking water so even 1000lt tank would be sufficient considering it is being topped up by rain.
2000lt is an overkill for 2 people in the house but some of this water could be used in the garden as I don't want to use water from the mains which is polluted with Hexafluorosilicic acid. I will have another 2 separate IBC tanks for the garden but 1st I need to build a shed or some roof to gather water there.

Perhaps I could get away with a single 1000l tank for drinking water but then I would have to put it even higher to get some pressure at tap level - about 0.5m raised ground floor.

 

Do you mean to use 50x50 angle iron to secure the corners against impact from the side?

Edited May 31, 2022 by JohnBishop

[PeterW]

You’ll need some serious filtration / treatment for using rainwater for household use as potable water and you’ll need about 6,000 litre storage not 2,000 as you will run out. 
 

If you are concerned about fluoride in water then just fit reverse osmosis filtering on the mains water - cheaper, safer and never runs out like tanks do. 
 

 

[Russell griffiths]

Having lived in a country where a lot of houses use tank water, then I think your tank choice is wrong. I’ve never seen a clear tank used. 
do you not get algae build up. 
I thought they needed to be completely dark. 

[Miek]

Just now, Russell griffiths said:

Having lived in a country where a lot of houses use tank water, then I think your tank choice is wrong. I’ve never seen a clear tank used. 
do you not get algae build up. 
I thought they needed to be completely dark. 

Agree. You can get black IBC's,  but the clear ones accumulate a lot of growth over time . 

[saveasteading]

Good advice. to which I add or confirm:

 

Clear tank is a bad idea, and black should not be expensive, making sure to get potable quality.

 

This is very heavy. just supporting on blocks is not enough as it needs lateral stability, either by more blocks at 90 deg, or triangulating whatever other material you use.

 

We are currently detailing our off-grid water supply. Have decided on 3m3, as plenty for a large house.

There are use calculators on the water companies' websites.

In emergency of course it will run out, but that applies to everybody, and modern houses don't have any cold water storage.

 

Have you worked out how to connect the 2 tanks one above the other, so that they work together and are secure? Better to have a commercial tank of the right size.

 

[JohnMo]

The 1m elevation will give you 0.1 bar uplift in pressure, which is nothing and really not worth any effort or expense. 

 

If you need pressure, you need to pump to an accumulator with a ranged pressure switch to tell pump when to start and stop, you need filters to take out particulate and a UV filter to kill and bugs.

Edited June 1, 2022 by JohnMo
Missed word

[JohnBishop]

I didn't say I will leave water in a clear tank. Of course there are some black IBC tanks but it is sufficient to cover it nicely with 500G heavy duty polythene plastic.

[JohnBishop]

14 hours ago, PeterW said:

You’ll need some serious filtration / treatment for using rainwater for household use as potable water and you’ll need about 6,000 litre storage not 2,000 as you will run out. 
 

If you are concerned about fluoride in water then just fit reverse osmosis filtering on the mains water - cheaper, safer and never runs out like tanks do. 
 

 

no I don't think I need that much, I want and DIY solution not commercial.
Reverse osmosis is perhaps the only solution for flats but this does not filter all the fluoride in the water, this can only be guaranteed by distillation which is not cost effective.
I would want to be in complete control of the filtration system not just ease of mind replace filters every 6-12 months. This is also dependent on 3rd party that can go bust anytime or there are supply line issues and I won't get filters for a year.

[JohnBishop]

3 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Good advice. to which I add or confirm:

 

Clear tank is a bad idea, and black should not be expensive, making sure to get potable quality.

 

This is very heavy. just supporting on blocks is not enough as it needs lateral stability, either by more blocks at 90 deg, or triangulating whatever other material you use.

 

We are currently detailing our off-grid water supply. Have decided on 3m3, as plenty for a large house.

There are use calculators on the water companies' websites.

In emergency of course it will run out, but that applies to everybody, and modern houses don't have any cold water storage.

 

Have you worked out how to connect the 2 tanks one above the other, so that they work together and are secure? Better to have a commercial tank of the right size.

 

I have seen people doing it in US, I come across at least 2 people on YouTube:

 

 

and this man has a complete solution with 3 tanks with one acting as surge tank, 2nd as filtration only tank and 3rd tank as filtered water tank. This would only require a pump as JohnMo has pointed out so this can stand on the ground or 2 layers of centre blocks rather than on columns
 

you also have a cheap and complete water filtration with charcoal from Thailand:

 

 

[SteamyTea]

15 hours ago, JohnBishop said:

which is polluted with Hexafluorosilicic acid. I

To say nothing of the plasticizers used in containers, seals and pipes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticizer.

[JohnMo]

Also hope you are buying them brand new never used.  Many get used for all sorts of bad for your health stuff.

[JohnBishop]

1 minute ago, JohnMo said:

Also hope you are buying them brand new never used.  Many get used for all sorts of bad for your health stuff.

I know food grade steam cleaned IBC tanks.

[JohnMo]

The Fluoride in water is food grade, so as I said be careful.

 

Less than £300 new.  https://www.directwatertanks.co.uk/1000-litre-new-un-approved-black-ibc-with-plastic-pallet?gclid=Cj0KCQjwnNyUBhCZARIsAI9AYlEJj9TG6haSFftXA4wExh_JOY5CM0uRwn0k6HJFNFolXVhtWMZq6WQaAtK-EALw_wcB

[PeterW]

10 hours ago, JohnBishop said:

no I don't think I need that much, I want and DIY solution not commercial.

the average person uses 120-140 litres per day, so 2 people will use 240-280, or 1/4 of an IBC per day. You’ll need a lot of rain to keep these topped up…!! I’m also pretty sure you need to get water supplies checked by the council if they aren’t mains supplies but may be wrong. 

 

Not sure either on the issue you are trying to avoid ..? Levels of fluoride in U.K. water supplies is very low. 

[JohnMo]

Also some areas, like the whole of Scotland do not add Flouride  Other area it come with normal ground water naturally added. Do they add Flouride in your area for certain?

 

Bear in mind, the rain water you are collecting, is the same water that has just washed your roof clean, of bird crap, dead insects and pollution that has settled on your roof.  It also has none of the natural mineral salts, so these may need to to added to your diet artificially.

[SteamyTea]

36 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

also has none of the natural mineral salts, so these may need to to added to your diet artificially

 Nothing lives long on a diet of distilled water.

Water is commonly referred to as 'the universal solvent'.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by SteamyTea

[JohnBishop]

On 02/06/2022 at 09:41, SteamyTea said:

 Nothing lives long on a diet of distilled water.

Water is commonly referred to as 'the universal solvent'.

 

I agree with you but where I live the water is like 350ppm very hard comparing to my previous location around 220.
Skin feels hard after washing. In this case I would 50/50 with mains water to make it closer to 200ppm.

[SteamyTea]

40 minutes ago, JohnBishop said:

I agree with you but where I live the water is like 350ppm very hard comparing to my previous location around 220.
Skin feels hard after washing. In this case I would 50/50 with mains water to make it closer to 200ppm.

Mine is >50PPM

 

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, JohnBishop said:

I agree with you but where I live the water is like 350ppm very hard comparing to my previous location around 220.
Skin feels hard after washing. In this case I would 50/50 with mains water to make it closer to 200ppm.

so if it’s hardness that is the issue, fit a softener ..?

[Susie]

Rather than start a new topic I thought I would add on here. 
Can I use a IBC or similar cheaper non potable storage tank for rain water from the roof. 
I’m still getting used to all the approved documents. From document H eaves drop systems 1.13 it sounds like I could just let the rain fall away from the doors and foundations into the garden or field in my case.  I was expecting to have a soak away but If I can store the water above ground rather than a soak away I can use the water to water my garden etc. 

I would be happy having a few 3000 litre water storage containers I have plenty of room and large garden.  

[JohnBishop]

15 hours ago, Susie said:

Rather than start a new topic I thought I would add on here. 
Can I use a IBC or similar cheaper non potable storage tank for rain water from the roof. 
I’m still getting used to all the approved documents. From document H eaves drop systems 1.13 it sounds like I could just let the rain fall away from the doors and foundations into the garden or field in my case.  I was expecting to have a soak away but If I can store the water above ground rather than a soak away I can use the water to water my garden etc. 

I would be happy having a few 3000 litre water storage containers I have plenty of room and large garden.  

yes you can, just make sure the used ones you're buying didn't have chemicals in it. Some high pressure clean IBC tanks before selling some other sell IBC tanks that had e.g. vinegar in them so you can clean yourself. So there is no problem with IBC tanks just make sure the supplier is reliable / trustworthy.