Durisol - in administration

[Nick Laslett]

9 hours ago, FM2015 said:

Not the best pictures but all I've got to hand.

Thank you. 
 

I believe that I have this in my hot knife kit. 
 

 

[Mako]

On 21/05/2022 at 15:03, Russell griffiths said:

@MakoIm trying to find a reason why not to build using concrete with external insulation.

 

a fairly big reason would be getting somebody to do it. 

You would need a very competent concrete contractor, probably found in the civil engineering world rather than house builders. 

A friend has a 90% concrete house and they really had to go to an industrial scale to get the appropriate contractors. 

 

If you have the budget then then that’s fine but for a standard size house it would be hard to get a contractor interested. 

Million pound build not so much of a problem. 

I have been offered supply and fit solution, regardless of the size. they also offer a SIPS panel

option which they crane off and install on the same day, with concrete pour next day.

it sound too good to be true but that would get around that issue. Otherwise i can see only benefits in full concrete structure insulated externally.

 

what are your thoughts?

[Nic]

On 16/05/2022 at 14:38, FM2015 said:

Not all woodcrete or EPS or XPS blocks are born equal.  As someone has previously stated, the devil is in the detail.

 

@JohnMou

Surely the presence of rebar is a structural discussion almost entirely unrelated to the block type or manufacturer?

@FM2015

So if you were going to build with a woodcrete block which is top of the list and why ? @JohnMo your reasons are the same I came to the conclusion for consideration to use for my first self build next year 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Nic

[FM2015]

37 minutes ago, Nic said:

@FM2015

So if you were going to build with a woodcrete block which is top of the list and why ? @JohnMo your reasons are the same I came to the conclusion for consideration to use for my first self build next year 

Personally, I wouldn't build with woodcrete. I e if it was mine.  Professionally, we have little to no desire to get involved.  Recent history plays a part in that.  A great self build product but it's not for us.

It's less so that woodcrete has disbenefits and more that EPS/XPS alternatives have more benefits.

 

A very specific example?  Build a curve with woodcrete.

[Nickfromwales]

18 minutes ago, FM2015 said:

It's less so that woodcrete has dis benefits

Woodcrete has a boat load of them!! EPS is a no-brainer.

 

18 minutes ago, FM2015 said:

A very specific example?  Build a curve with woodcrete

You can with Velox, but that only solves the issues of the shape. Then you are still left with the list of cons / caveats.

 

18 minutes ago, FM2015 said:

Professionally, we have little to no desire to get involved

Absolutely. The only future woodcrete builds I will get involved with will be the ones where the clients know about, and can find a budget to sort out. If you build during the winter / rain then the internal stuff goes on ice as you'll literally have rivers flowing out of the internal face of the blocks. Only at the windows / door reveals & heads with Velox, but the other offerings (Durisol & Isotex) have a woodcrete bridge joining the exterior teabag to the internal teabag. It takes MONTHS for these to dry out afterwards too.

Add to that the micro-format blocks (vs Nudura's 8 FOOT LONG ones) and then getting verticals and straights to be vertical and straight, and your then into a hell of a lot of additional prep work (inside and out as the blocks mirror the internal faults externally, and the huge amount of additional AT work, and that should be enough negatives to take you to EPS. 

 

10 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

You can with Velox,

 

[Mr Punter]

29 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

 

 

Even simpler with timber frame:

 

[JohnMo]

32 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

you build during the winter / rain then the internal stuff goes on ice as you'll literally have rivers flowing out of the internal face of the blocks.

Certainly not my experience, windy rainy hill side site, zero rain through wall, were actually living in the house prior to external walls being sealed. Walls went up in Dec, followed by roof, windows not in until April.

 

We had an issue once with water ingress, but that was because the outside ground level was higher than the dpc, nothing related to Durisol.

[JohnMo]

Of cause you can also do curved walls with Durisol 

[FM2015]

@NickfromwalesjJust trying to be fair. 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Certainly not my experience, windy rainy hill side site, zero rain through wall, were actually living in the house prior to external walls being sealed. Walls went up in Dec, followed by roof, windows not in until April.

 

We had an issue once with water ingress, but that was because the outside ground level was higher than the dpc, nothing related to Durisol.

Then you were very lucky indeed. What I wrote was entirely 'my' (clients) experience, and no exaggeration whatsoever.

 

On both the Velox project, and the Isotex project, the uplift to get rainproof and airtight was "significant". 5 figures for each project. The Isotex was marketed as being ready to take plaster directly.......wtf?! 

 

Whilst installing the UFH I was literally kneeling down and getting soaked by a series of mini-rivers running over the sub-floor, and that was with a meticulous builder installing the Velox!

 

Woodcrete is absolutely definitely porous, so don't expect the same results with that as you'd get with EPS (which is pretty-much rain-proof and AT by default) as you won't. 

 

I would be surprised if anyone could demonstrate otherwise, maybe not the rivers but there is no way on this earth that rain doesn't get through / soak into the woodcrete systems. I've done enough to know.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Even simpler with timber frame:

 

There were 3 stories of ICF on that project (4-storey house if you count the basement), hence the choice. 

[ToughButterCup]

I have never had any water ingress through Durisol ever.

 

And it took a full year between building and covering part of the Durisol blocks. The outside of the most exposed part of our house - last  few square metres - was rendered last week. That is four years after it was built. 

 

I understand Durisol is mostly air. Like - say- a pullover. On contact with water from the outside, water simply drains downwards. For water to travel through the substance, it would require external pressure to move it from outside to inside.

[Nickfromwales]

I've said my bit.

 

Based 100% on facts, and with me kneeling in water, clients effing and jeffing about dehumidifiers not even scratching the surface, etc etc.

[SteamyTea]

Milk flows through shredded wheat.

It soaks into Wheat-a-bix.

Both those trap air.

 

But we should really be trying to minimise the use of concrete, all these ICF are really just poured concrete houses. 

[JohnMo]

33 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

But we should really be trying to minimise the use of concrete, all these ICF are really just poured concrete houses

True, same with concrete blocks. Nearly all the timber frame houses in Scotland, are encased in concrete blocks. So not any better either.

[Nickfromwales]

58 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Milk flows through shredded wheat.

It soaks into Wheat-a-bix.

Both those trap air.

The woodcrete is like a non branded breakfast cereal for sure. The rain hitting the building up high heads south, that starts to saturate the "air pockets" which then fill with water and occupy that pore. Then as this carries on south over 1 or 2 stories the water then finds itself wanting a way out. That's gravity and a bit of capillary action at its best.

The blocks which have woodcrete bridges from leaf to leaf (not so with Velox) are terrible at stopping conveyance of this rainwater to the interior layer. By the time it has been soaked, saturated, and has dropped down a few metres of height, the interior woodcrete starts to take on the moisture / damp / water via those bridges. That's a fact. They act like a wick.

Just don't do it people, and I haven't even started on how awful they are to get airtight too.

I'm simply sharing my experiences; from working directly, hands on with these products, on real live projects, and I post this information for free in my 'spare' time.

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

By the time it has been soaked, saturated, and has dropped down a few metres of height, the interior woodcrete starts to take on the moisture / damp / water via those bridges. That's a fact. They act like a wick.

A wick, or capillary action to use the right term, will work regardless of orientation and does not care if it is inside a tube or on the outside of a filament. It is electrostatic forces at work.

[Nickfromwales]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

A wick, or capillary action to use the right term, will work regardless of orientation and does not care if it is inside a tube or on the outside of a filament. It is electrostatic forces at work.

Yup. They literally 'suck'. In more ways than one.

 

Folk who have used / are using them, please feel free to ask how I/"we" got some bloody good results for airtightness and made the best of the product. It just took a lot of time, effort and ultimately money.

 

I will offer up help as much as I offer up the above highlighting of these very real issues.

[JohnMo]

Not doubting your own experience, but it was completely opposite to mine,  building my own house on a very exposed site in Scotland.

[JohnMo]

The gaps between the woodcrete are too big to support capillary action. Put some woodcrete in a bucket with some of the block out of the water. The part out of the water stays dry. Been there tried it. And is fully free draining.

 

But whatever you want to say, carry on, will not be following this thread any more.

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

15 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

...

Based 100% on facts,..., clients effing and jeffing about dehumidifiers not even scratching the surface, etc etc.

...

 

Truth claims , unevidenced, damage discussion.

 

When Moderators do that it damages both discussion and Buildhub.

 

I make no claim about it. I merely present evidence. Here are all 191 posts I have written about the stuff.

[Nickfromwales]

ToughButterCup

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Posted February 2, 2021 · IP 

Yes, @FM2015, woodcrete ( the generic name for Durisol I take it?) is leaky and does allow water into it, unless covered up properly

 

In terms of water tightness, Durisol - on its own - is a bit like  a Land Rover 90 : water leaks out of it as fast as it leaked in in the first place. If you don't control ingress - water is on its way in.  I have a small  Piggery (now used as a wash-house and store) which has no cladding or water ingress control at all. It shows some evidence of damp having been there, but for a utility room its fine. Cover it with Cloeber Permo Forte Quattro and some nice open cladding and the problem will disappear. Well, it has in the main house.

 

In terms of air tightness, I think I have slipped up: better said, not had the bandwidth to focus on that issue as closely as I would have liked. Time will tell. My office (where I am now) is in part of the house where there is no outside or inside parging or plastering. I can actually feel the draft when the wind is in the right direction. No water ever gets to the office wall because it's under a large canopy (5m by 3m) . But the wind does whistle in. Leave the room, shut the door, and the rest of the house (fully parged and plastered)  is stiller, warmer, quieter. 

 

Sucking my teeth about the air test......?

Edited June 13, 2023 by Nickfromwales
Edited to remove accidentally posted content from the moderator forum.

[BotusBuild]

On 22/05/2022 at 18:48, FM2015 said:

On 22/05/2022 at 15:33, BotusBuild said:

I certainly am using ICF - Nudura, and received delivery of next floor kit before it went up 15%. Not sure exactly when it will be going in place. But I am happy and wiling to provide a film set when I want channels cutting in EPS for my low smoke cabling and water pipes 🙂 

Is that low smoke cabling so as to avoid conduits?  Come across a few jobs where this was the case only to fall foul of protection measures.

 

Unless you put them deep enough, you'll still need protection.  Cost of cable over normal will be in the same ball park as normal plus conduit.

You can form a channel that is almost key hole shaped so the conduit 'clips' in.

 

I am at the time to install cabling, and conduit and "normal cable" it will be having consulted a number of electricians.

 

Once I have sourced the materials are @FM2015 and @SteamyTea still good for tea, cakes and filming 🙂 

[SteamyTea]

20 minutes ago, BotusBuild said:

Once I have sourced the materials are @FM2015 and @SteamyTea still good for tea, cakes and filming

Possibly, as long as it does not clash with anything else in my busy schedule.