Scottish regulation fire alarms

[djcdan]

Specified on our house plans are:
x2 heat alarms

x6 optical alarms

x2 ionisation alarms

x1 carbon dioxide alarm

 

Alarms would need to meet the new Scottish regs since we're north of the border. All the wires are in for mains powered. Aico seems the generally accepted brand here.

 

However, am I being daft? It doesn't seem that Aico sells a carbon dioxide alarm or am I looking at the wrong thing? There are several listings found on Google that claim to be a CO2 sensor, but the packaging shows Carbon monoxide sensor in the image on the product listing. Aico also launched an environmental sensor, which does include CO2 sensor, but it seems a little OTT and doesn't appear to interlink with the rest of the alarms.

 

 

[TonyT]

Carbon monoxide is what you are looking for not dioxide..

 

aico do a neat unit combined with heat.

 

[djcdan]

 

@TonyTIt is Carbon Dioxide that has been specced...

Edited April 13, 2022 by djcdan

[Jenki]

  On 13/04/2022 at 23:03, TonyT said:

Carbon monoxide is what you are looking for not dioxide..

 

aico do a neat unit combined with heat.

 

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In Scotland, (not sure about rest of UK, if you have a high airtightness, below 3ACPH (IIRC) you do need to monitor Carbon 'Di'oxide.

[TonyT]

Sorry mate the spec is wrong 

[JohnMo]

  On 14/04/2022 at 06:27, TonyT said:

Sorry mate the spec is wrong 

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Are you sure you are correct stating that.

 

You need CO for any combustible appliances, gas boiler wood stove etc.

 

It is also mandatory to have a CO2 if your airtightness is better than 15.  This is a stand alone monitor mains powered.

 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-2017-domestic/3-environment/314-ventilation/

 

Section 3.14.2 applies

[TonyT]

The spec mentions carbon dioxide…

 

you are looking for carbon monoxide..

[JohnMo]

  On 13/04/2022 at 23:39, djcdan said:

 

@TonyTIt is Carbon Dioxide that has been specced...

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The post 8 hours states CO2, you then said the spec was wrong without further explanation.

 

Scottish Building regs require a CO2 monitor not CO2 alarm.  So the word alarm is incorrect.

 

  On 13/04/2022 at 23:03, TonyT said:

Carbon monoxide is what you are looking for not dioxide..

 

aico do a neat unit combined with heat.

 

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Also in Scottish Building regs the use of combined heat and smoke alarms are not allowed, as only a heat alarm is allowed in a kitchen.  It even makes a comment about combined units in a kitchen will not comply with the regulations.

[dpmiller]

the Aico is combined heat and CO...

[Ralph]

As far as I'm aware because it's not an alarm and does not need to be linked you need to get something like this https://scotlandhomesafe.co.uk/collections/carbon-dioxide/products/domestic-carbon-dioxide-monitor These seem to be what most people have around here and I have the same one, wall mounted so you can see the screen. 

[TonyT]

  On 14/04/2022 at 07:53, JohnMo said:

The post 8 hours states CO2, you then said the spec was wrong without further explanation.

 

Scottish Building regs require a CO2 monitor not CO2 alarm.  So the word alarm is incorrect.

 

Also in Scottish Building regs the use of combined heat and smoke alarms are not allowed, as only a heat alarm is allowed in a kitchen.  It even makes a comment about combined units in a kitchen will not comply with the regulations.

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I was meaning carbon monoxide and heat in a combined unit.

 

 

[djcdan]

  On 14/04/2022 at 07:53, JohnMo said:

Scottish Building regs require a CO2 monitor not CO2 alarm.  So the word alarm is incorrect.

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Ah, ok. Thanks.

So perhaps Aico's enviromental sensor would be appropriate? https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/5052860-temperature-humidity-and-co2-environmental-sensor?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjN-SBhCkARIsACsrBz5kb3egrkVB4o1nqsl6x22rocvOr89GhsoF50ehfLp4Tu8_lOClOq8aAhEUEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

 

  On 14/04/2022 at 08:22, Ralph said:

As far as I'm aware because it's not an alarm and does not need to be linked

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Right now, there is a loop of cable coming down from the ceiling for mains installation. If it isn't to be mains installed/linked, I presume pushing the cable back above the plasterboard and installing the environmental sensor (powered by battery) in it's place would be sufficient here.

[JohnMo]

Not sure that complies with the regs, as you would require a gateway and full time display also.

 

So more like this.

https://scotlandhomesafe.co.uk/products/carbon-dioxide-and-temperature-monitor

 

[Ralph]

  On 14/04/2022 at 10:55, djcdan said:

Right now, there is a loop of cable coming down from the ceiling for mains installation. If it isn't to be mains installed/linked, I presume pushing the cable back above the plasterboard and installing the environmental sensor (powered by battery) in it's place would be sufficient here.

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It still needs to be mains operated, have a visual display and be capable of logging C02 data for the last 24 hour period. That would rule out the Aico Temperature, Humidity and CO2 Environmental Sensor. unless it can connect to a visual display. It looks like that would mean getting the Ei1000G SmartLINK Gateway and connecting it to a laptop. I'm not sure that would meet the easy to use and understand part of the requirements, it's also more expensive than just getting the standalone monitor and having it wired in somewhere on a wall.

[Carrerahill]

  On 13/04/2022 at 23:39, djcdan said:

 

@TonyTIt is Carbon Dioxide that has been specced...

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The CO2 alarm doesn't need to be part of the fire alarm, it is just a monitor/warning alarm if the CO2 ppm gets too high, you get staged alerts then a danger level. Maybe if houses were built with proper ventilation rather than stupid sealed boxes. 

 

I have just finished a residential development of 36 flats just outside of Glasgow, we omitted the CO2's a design stage because we could prove the MVHR system would provide suitability fresh air. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Carrerahill

[Carrerahill]

  On 14/04/2022 at 06:27, TonyT said:

Sorry mate the spec is wrong 

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No, to be fair it is right.

 

Common to have a CO2 in master bedroom in Scotland, it does not need to be on the interlinked fire alarm system though as it's not a fire alarm. CO for combustion appliances, usually done with a combined CO/optical head. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Carrerahill

[djcdan]

  On 14/04/2022 at 11:31, JohnMo said:

Not sure that complies with the regs, as you would require a gateway and full time display also.

 

So more like this.

https://scotlandhomesafe.co.uk/products/carbon-dioxide-and-temperature-monitor

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I'll need to look for an alternative that doesn't look like a 20 year old hospital monitor? My bedroom will end up looking like a GP's office 😄

 

But on a more serious note, the wiring is done, boarded and plastered. There is no back box with wiring for a wall mounted monitor. Is it an absolute requirement that this needs to have an integrated display and wall mounted with its own main power supply? Is battery power out of the question?

 

  On 14/04/2022 at 12:05, Carrerahill said:

we omitted the CO2's a design stage because we could prove the MVHR system would provide suitability fresh air

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Is there any scope to omit this requirement now in your opinion? We also have MVHR.

[djcdan]

  On 14/04/2022 at 13:16, djcdan said:

I'll need to look for an alternative

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I would presume since it is on the Scotland Homesafe website, that this meets Scottish Building Regs? It has a display as required but is a little more inconspicuous than the other options.

[Ralph]

  On 14/04/2022 at 13:16, djcdan said:

Is it an absolute requirement that this needs to have an integrated display and wall mounted with its own main power supply? Is battery power out of the question?

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It really comes down to what the building inspector will let slide on the day. The regs specifies mains and a visual display, no mention of it being integrated and no problem with it being on the ceiling.

 

  On 14/04/2022 at 13:23, djcdan said:

I would presume since it is on the Scotland Homesafe website, that this meets Scottish Building Regs? It has a display as required but is a little more inconspicuous than the other options.

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That certainly looks nicer, no mention of being able to record data over the past 24 hours but I would seriously doubt any one is going to care.   

 

 

[Carrerahill]

  On 14/04/2022 at 13:16, djcdan said:

I'll need to look for an alternative that doesn't look like a 20 year old hospital monitor? My bedroom will end up looking like a GP's office 😄

 

But on a more serious note, the wiring is done, boarded and plastered. There is no back box with wiring for a wall mounted monitor. Is it an absolute requirement that this needs to have an integrated display and wall mounted with its own main power supply? Is battery power out of the question?

 

Is there any scope to omit this requirement now in your opinion? We also have MVHR.

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Yes, our mechanical consultants did the vent and air, so they worked out that the system they were providing gave suitable fresh air, therefore CO2 would not be an issue. I work in kVA and W and A not kPa and °C so I am not claiming to be an expert but I just know that our side of the office didn't need to include them due to the clever design done on the other side! 

[Meabh]

Anyone discover any cheaper/better looking options that those mentioned in the thread already i.e.

 

Carbon Dioxide and Temperature Monitor (scotlandhomesafe.co.uk)

Carbon Dioxide and Temperature Monitor (scotlandhomesafe.co.uk)

 

Thanks

[Kelvin]

  On 24/04/2024 at 10:22, Meabh said:

Anyone discover any cheaper/better looking options that those mentioned in the thread already i.e.

 

Carbon Dioxide and Temperature Monitor (scotlandhomesafe.co.uk)

Carbon Dioxide and Temperature Monitor (scotlandhomesafe.co.uk)

 

Thanks

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It’s what we have. They are white on a white wall so mostly disappear.  

[saveasteading]

Has anyone outside Scotland decided to install to the Scottish regulations? It seems sensible to me and isn't too expensive.

[Meabh]

  On 24/04/2024 at 10:33, Kelvin said:

It’s what we have. They are white on a white wall so mostly disappear.  

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Thanks - it's sitting beside the MVHR boost switch so not the best looking wall.....

[Kelvin]

  On 25/04/2024 at 08:04, Meabh said:

Thanks - it's sitting beside the MVHR boost switch so not the best looking wall.....

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Modern houses end up with a bit of wall and ceiling acne. You’ll stop noticing it pretty quickly. Our kitchen ceiling is a bit busy. 

Edited April 25, 2024 by Kelvin