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Scottish regulation fire alarms


djcdan
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Specified on our house plans are:
x2 heat alarms

x6 optical alarms

x2 ionisation alarms

x1 carbon dioxide alarm

 

Alarms would need to meet the new Scottish regs since we're north of the border. All the wires are in for mains powered. Aico seems the generally accepted brand here.

 

However, am I being daft? It doesn't seem that Aico sells a carbon dioxide alarm or am I looking at the wrong thing? There are several listings found on Google that claim to be a CO2 sensor, but the packaging shows Carbon monoxide sensor in the image on the product listing. Aico also launched an environmental sensor, which does include CO2 sensor, but it seems a little OTT and doesn't appear to interlink with the rest of the alarms.

 

 

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6 hours ago, TonyT said:

Carbon monoxide is what you are looking for not dioxide..

 

aico do a neat unit combined with heat.

 

In Scotland, (not sure about rest of UK, if you have a high airtightness, below 3ACPH (IIRC) you do need to monitor Carbon 'Di'oxide.

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52 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Sorry mate the spec is wrong 

Are you sure you are correct stating that.

 

You need CO for any combustible appliances, gas boiler wood stove etc.

 

It is also mandatory to have a CO2 if your airtightness is better than 15.  This is a stand alone monitor mains powered.

 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-2017-domestic/3-environment/314-ventilation/

 

Section 3.14.2 applies

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8 hours ago, djcdan said:

image.png.73dd82a35de73e60eed804850a3c441a.png

image.png.3b945761f77ec11f259cd04d4eac7e54.png

 

@TonyTIt is Carbon Dioxide that has been specced...

The post 8 hours states CO2, you then said the spec was wrong without further explanation.

 

Scottish Building regs require a CO2 monitor not CO2 alarm.  So the word alarm is incorrect.

 

8 hours ago, TonyT said:

Carbon monoxide is what you are looking for not dioxide..

 

aico do a neat unit combined with heat.

 

Also in Scottish Building regs the use of combined heat and smoke alarms are not allowed, as only a heat alarm is allowed in a kitchen.  It even makes a comment about combined units in a kitchen will not comply with the regulations.

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2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

The post 8 hours states CO2, you then said the spec was wrong without further explanation.

 

Scottish Building regs require a CO2 monitor not CO2 alarm.  So the word alarm is incorrect.

 

Also in Scottish Building regs the use of combined heat and smoke alarms are not allowed, as only a heat alarm is allowed in a kitchen.  It even makes a comment about combined units in a kitchen will not comply with the regulations.


I was meaning carbon monoxide and heat in a combined unit.

 

 

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2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Scottish Building regs require a CO2 monitor not CO2 alarm.  So the word alarm is incorrect.

Ah, ok. Thanks.

So perhaps Aico's enviromental sensor would be appropriate? https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/5052860-temperature-humidity-and-co2-environmental-sensor?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjN-SBhCkARIsACsrBz5kb3egrkVB4o1nqsl6x22rocvOr89GhsoF50ehfLp4Tu8_lOClOq8aAhEUEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

 

2 hours ago, Ralph said:

As far as I'm aware because it's not an alarm and does not need to be linked

Right now, there is a loop of cable coming down from the ceiling for mains installation. If it isn't to be mains installed/linked, I presume pushing the cable back above the plasterboard and installing the environmental sensor (powered by battery) in it's place would be sufficient here.

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20 minutes ago, djcdan said:

Right now, there is a loop of cable coming down from the ceiling for mains installation. If it isn't to be mains installed/linked, I presume pushing the cable back above the plasterboard and installing the environmental sensor (powered by battery) in it's place would be sufficient here.

It still needs to be mains operated, have a visual display and be capable of logging C02 data for the last 24 hour period. That would rule out the Aico Temperature, Humidity and CO2 Environmental Sensor. unless it can connect to a visual display. It looks like that would mean getting the Ei1000G SmartLINK Gateway and connecting it to a laptop. I'm not sure that would meet the easy to use and understand part of the requirements, it's also more expensive than just getting the standalone monitor and having it wired in somewhere on a wall.

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12 hours ago, djcdan said:

image.png.73dd82a35de73e60eed804850a3c441a.png

image.png.3b945761f77ec11f259cd04d4eac7e54.png

 

@TonyTIt is Carbon Dioxide that has been specced...

The CO2 alarm doesn't need to be part of the fire alarm, it is just a monitor/warning alarm if the CO2 ppm gets too high, you get staged alerts then a danger level. Maybe if houses were built with proper ventilation rather than stupid sealed boxes. 

 

I have just finished a residential development of 36 flats just outside of Glasgow, we omitted the CO2's a design stage because we could prove the MVHR system would provide suitability fresh air. 

Edited by Carrerahill
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5 hours ago, TonyT said:

Sorry mate the spec is wrong 

No, to be fair it is right.

 

Common to have a CO2 in master bedroom in Scotland, it does not need to be on the interlinked fire alarm system though as it's not a fire alarm. CO for combustion appliances, usually done with a combined CO/optical head. 

Edited by Carrerahill
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1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Not sure that complies with the regs, as you would require a gateway and full time display also.

 

So more like this.

https://scotlandhomesafe.co.uk/products/carbon-dioxide-and-temperature-monitor

I'll need to look for an alternative that doesn't look like a 20 year old hospital monitor? My bedroom will end up looking like a GP's office 😄

 

But on a more serious note, the wiring is done, boarded and plastered. There is no back box with wiring for a wall mounted monitor. Is it an absolute requirement that this needs to have an integrated display and wall mounted with its own main power supply? Is battery power out of the question?

 

58 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

we omitted the CO2's a design stage because we could prove the MVHR system would provide suitability fresh air

Is there any scope to omit this requirement now in your opinion? We also have MVHR.

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3 minutes ago, djcdan said:

I'll need to look for an alternative

I would presume since it is on the Scotland Homesafe website, that this meets Scottish Building Regs? It has a display as required but is a little more inconspicuous than the other options.

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13 minutes ago, djcdan said:

Is it an absolute requirement that this needs to have an integrated display and wall mounted with its own main power supply? Is battery power out of the question?

It really comes down to what the building inspector will let slide on the day. The regs specifies mains and a visual display, no mention of it being integrated and no problem with it being on the ceiling.

 

8 minutes ago, djcdan said:

I would presume since it is on the Scotland Homesafe website, that this meets Scottish Building Regs? It has a display as required but is a little more inconspicuous than the other options.

That certainly looks nicer, no mention of being able to record data over the past 24 hours but I would seriously doubt any one is going to care.   

 

 

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19 hours ago, djcdan said:

I'll need to look for an alternative that doesn't look like a 20 year old hospital monitor? My bedroom will end up looking like a GP's office 😄

 

But on a more serious note, the wiring is done, boarded and plastered. There is no back box with wiring for a wall mounted monitor. Is it an absolute requirement that this needs to have an integrated display and wall mounted with its own main power supply? Is battery power out of the question?

 

Is there any scope to omit this requirement now in your opinion? We also have MVHR.

Yes, our mechanical consultants did the vent and air, so they worked out that the system they were providing gave suitable fresh air, therefore CO2 would not be an issue. I work in kVA and W and A not kPa and °C so I am not claiming to be an expert but I just know that our side of the office didn't need to include them due to the clever design done on the other side! 

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