AliG Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 On the topic of concealed cisterns, I am just having one put in this week and the new house will have seven. The suppliers (Porcelanosa) are adamant that you don't have to worry about just building the cistern into the bulkhead with the only access through the flush plate. My current bathroom fitter is very nervous of this and wants to create an access. Looking around, it does seem that these are often built into walls with no access, do people think this is a wise decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Your fitter needs to get into 2016 No need whatsoever for access. That's only if his plumbing to the unit fails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Fwiw, I've NEVER had one of these units give me a moments grief ( when fitted correctly ) and I've done a good few. They used to have a crap connector at the bottom do the cistern but now it's a much better solution which is idiot proof ( just ask me ! ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) I feel a lot better hearing from someone with real life experience. Easy for the supplier to say not to worry. We currently have really cheap concealed cisterns boxed in in formica cabinets. They have leaked numerous times requiring me to get inside the cabinet and fix them. Three or four times they have leaked from washers where the ball(isolator) valve is connected. I don't know if the ball valves have been incorrectly fitted. As far as I can see these new ones have the isolator inside the cistern. The weak point seems to be the connection of the metal isolator valve to the plastic tail on the cistern which requires a washer. Sorry, I think I asked about this before, but I had the tiler ask me yesterday and the joiner ask me today if I was sure I didn't want access. Edited June 1, 2016 by AliG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 You're sure total waste of time and effort. There is nothing serviceable OUTSIDE of the cistern. Anything INSIDE the cistern gets taken apart / serviced / replaced as per the demo vid. Bob's your uncle. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 There are more I can keep posting them until you get the trap doors out of your head not one of these has any other access than through the flush plate. Bingo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I believe you Nick! They had me wavering by constantly asking. I will tell them tomorrow, definitely no access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 @Nickfromwales God, you smooth bugger. I am just so in awe. Megabad, here we come!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trw144 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Nice work Nick - still might try and coax you to Hereford for installing. I was even looking at b&b's for you the other day. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Sounds more like an affair If you've got the money I've got the time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Found that photo of the Geberit components: What bit leaked on the earlier Geberit frames then? Vaguely remember something about this on the other forum. Just wondering as these are the UP200 cistern, 0.98m high, 150mm deep frame. (But then I do have the wall depth to cope). Nick, what wall hung wc is that in your post that I just liked? Edited June 1, 2016 by Onoff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Side-by-sides ...As made famous by the image of the newly built, Russian public toilets that went viral just before the Sochi games It will never catch on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetE Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Lovely work Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 There used to be a compression type nut and cone washer for the flush pipe, where it met the underside of the cistern. Temp posted re his grief with them, but the type you have is the superseded version and is one piece push on with a chunky o-ring and is bombproof. That one you liked is about 4 years ago, and I've consumed a bit of ale since. Iirc it's a Duravit pan. Thought it may have been a Starck pan but in my pic it appears to have a rim to it. Maybe discontinued? The Stark 3 looks similar. Theyre expensive, but the bolt system on the underside is second to none. I don't like the side fix ones and I get the most amount of grief from the latter, during fitting. Plus, I don't like to see the caps on the side that go in the fixing holes after fitting as they never fit snugly IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Thanks. I do a lot of showroom bathrooms so they've been my main bread and butter. I do like fitting kitchens more tbh, and am trying to steer things that way. Just my luck that Ive just taken deposits on 2 bathrooms and a Wetroom . Bugger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: There used to be a compression type nut and cone washer for the flush pipe, where it met the underside of the cistern. Temp posted re his grief with them, but the type you have is the superseded version and is one piece push on with a chunky o-ring and is bombproof. That one you liked is about 4 years ago, and I've consumed a bit of ale since. Iirc it's a Duravit pan. Thought it may have been a Starck pan but in my pic it appears to have a rim to it. Maybe discontinued? The Stark 3 looks similar. Theyre expensive, but the bolt system on the underside is second to none. I don't like the side fix ones and I get the most amount if grief from the latter, during fitting. Plus, I don't like to see the caps on the side that go in the fixing jokes after fitting as they never fit snugly IMO. Thanks. Bit lost ref side caps. Thought I'd found the same model (220009) as on your eBay link for the Starck 3 but it shows very obvious side caps unless I'm missing something. http://www.bathroomsandshowersdirect.co.uk/duravit---wall-hung-toilets/starck-3-wall-hung-toilets/duravit-starck-3-220009-wall-hung-pan-white?gclid=CNKcqc7liM0CFQPgGwodVP0Htw How do you get to the bolts on the one in your eBay link - looks like there aren't any? Edited June 2, 2016 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 That's the one in my link no side caps there spongebob. Or or that one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Similar look for a lot less money, Bernstein make, any good? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RIMLESS-WALL-HUNG-WALL-MOUNTED-TOILET-NT2038-Ceramic-Soft-close-duroplast-seat/281855507922?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36498%26meid%3De0091188b4fd4681bf518c2a314d4b10%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331856429927 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Looks nice for the money. Says "does not include fixings" so there opens a compatibility can o worms. Can you email them with the model of frame you have and ask if the fixings are available to suit ( and how much )? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Looks nice for the money. Says "does not include fixings" so there opens a compatibility can o worms. Can you email them with the model of frame you have and ask if the fixings are available to suit ( and how much )? £120 each here for a similar looking pan here. You can get it with either a Geberit or Bernstein frame so I reckon the fixings that come with the frames I've got may do: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WALL-HUNG-TOILET-WALL-MOUNTED-SoftClose-GEBERIT-installation-system-Flush-Plate-/281393512309 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Toilet all installed with no access through the tiles. I will post pics next weekend when I get home. I noticed that with use the mastic around the toilet has split as it has moved slightly. I suspect that you should maybe mastic it with someone sitting on it. I noticed on the pics you posted Nick that there isn't any mastic around the toilets, had it just not been done yet. The suppliers catalogue has a piece that fits between the toilet and the tiles (called an accoustic/isolation shield) the salesperson said not to bother with it and the fitters would just use mastic, but I wonder if it is actually needed to get a better fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 9 hours ago, AliG said: Toilet all installed with no access through the tiles. I will post pics next weekend when I get home. I noticed that with use the mastic around the toilet has split as it has moved slightly. I suspect that you should maybe mastic it with someone sitting on it. I noticed on the pics you posted Nick that there isn't any mastic around the toilets, had it just not been done yet. The suppliers catalogue has a piece that fits between the toilet and the tiles (called an accoustic/isolation shield) the salesperson said not to bother with it and the fitters would just use mastic, but I wonder if it is actually needed to get a better fit. Probably a good idea. Like sealing the bath when it's full of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've fitted them for the acoustic quality, and can report no real difference. In the pics if there is no silicone / sealant then it's just because it hadn't been done yet . Every job needs to be sealed so you can't pee down the gap after too much ale I always fit the pan loose, squirt sealant / silicone between the pan and the wall, then fully tighten. As the sealant oozes out you clear it away with baby wipes / tissue and CT1 multi solve ( if you've used a non silicone like CT1 ) and then level and give a final tighten. I always clear as much silicone / other away from that junction as possible, leaving just a functional seal down the sides, but on the top I tool the silicone to leave a flat flush surface so there is no 'trough'. Leave to cure for 24 hrs, and job done. If the silicone is breaking away then I'd be a bit concerned that the pan may not have been fully tightened back. They do move a little though, and you have to have balls of steel to give the final few turns of the fixings. If just a quick finger of silicone has been applied, rather than my method of sandwiching it between the two mating surfaces, then I'd fully expect it to come away / split. Needs redoing IMO. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJunFan Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: I always fit the pan loose, squirt sealant / silicone between the pan and the wall, then fully tighten. As the sealant oozes out you clear it away with baby wipes / tissue and CT1 multi solve ( if you've used a non silicone like CT1 ) and then level and give a final tighten. The tricks of the trade! I'll have to remember all these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warby Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 9 hours ago, DeeJunFan said: Probably a good idea. Like sealing the bath when its full of water. If a bath full of water weighs 8 stone that is the same weight as my wife. On this basis are you suggesting she should sit in the bath whilst the silicone cures. Silicone cures in 48 hours. If she has to do this for each toilet, bath and shower base for 48 hours for each appliance, that would seem ideal from my perspective. Could you please let me have your full name and address for the divorced papers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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