Tree Roots

[Gone West]

10 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

In general all evergreen trees/shrubs won't grow back from old wood, the exception being yew as @JSHarris has found.

Another exception are laurels.

[Onoff]

My missus "saved" two laurels from a skip. (She did ask and it was from friends). We planted them down the front and both took. When I did the big front gate we moved them. Again they didn't mind and took. I now realise we should have moved them even further for better drive access. Pretty confident they'll take again, hardy beggars!

Edited May 6, 2017 by Onoff
Spelling mistake

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

Another exception are laurels.

 

Or Aucuba (Variegted laurels)?

[Invader75]

3 hours ago, bassanclan said:

In general all evergreen trees/shrubs won't grow back from old wood, the exception being yew as @JSHarris has found.

 

Surely neighbours tree roots growing under your land which prevent building work or cause it to be more expensive should be considered trespass?

You'd think. I guess unless they admit to it, which will prove hard given the ladies old age, the only way to proceed will be the local council?

[Invader75]

12 hours ago, PeterW said:

Right so that's a nice looking copper beech that needs a bit of a trim (lower two branches would lift the canopy nicely) , a youngish Silver Birch than has some growing to do ....

 

... and the tallest Leylandi hedge I've seen ..!!

 

Whoever pruned those should be ashamed - you cannot prune them like that ..! They are a hedge though as the proximity of the trunks shows they were planted as such. 

 

What would worry me is the root mass - it will be a large intertwined mess that is probably only 12-18" deep but they have over balanced the trees. What is also concerning is they appear to have removed one side which will over balance the whole lot towards the other house - the group of 4 on the right is leaning and one is showing signs of failure now. 

 

Depending on your location, that is probably £7-900 of work to remove those but they need doing before they fall - they can't even be topped as there is noting left below 20ft....

 

 

Ok, so the copper beach and birch are ok but might need some work? How do you think we should deal with the problem of the hedges? Old girl living on her own, not much involvement from her Son or granddaughter. The only contact we have is with odd job guy/gardner who hacked the thing back originally. We don't want to cause any bad feeling but ultimately, want the proposed annexe to get planning without having those horrible things looming over it and preventing much needed light.

[Ferdinand]

3 hours ago, bassanclan said:

In general all evergreen trees/shrubs won't grow back from old wood, the exception being yew as @JSHarris has found.

 

Surely neighbours tree roots growing under your land which prevent building work or cause it to be more expensive should be considered trespass?

 

Not usually imo - because trees are acknowledged to grow.

 

There is, however, a right to cut the roots back (subject to TPOs and you cannot seriously damage the tree), and a responsibility on the tree owner to be responsible for damage once the culprit tree is proven and if notice was served before the damage occurred.

F

[Ferdinand]

6 minutes ago, Invader75 said:

The only contact we have is with odd job guy/gardner who hacked the thing back originally. We don't want to cause any bad feeling but ultimately, want the proposed annexe to get planning without having those horrible things looming over it and preventing much needed light.

 

I cannot see an easy way. There is no reason why she should do it as any pruning will make her situation worse.

 

The only option I can see is complete removal and provide her with a hedge or fence which blocks the view.

 

Ferdinand

 

[PeterW]

5 hours ago, Invader75 said:

Ok, so the copper beach and birch are ok but might need some work? How do you think we should deal with the problem of the hedges? Old girl living on her own, not much involvement from her Son or granddaughter. The only contact we have is with odd job guy/gardner who hacked the thing back originally. We don't want to cause any bad feeling but ultimately, want the proposed annexe to get planning without having those horrible things looming over it and preventing much needed light.

 

Get an arborist to give you their opinion on the state of the trees and then suggest that they are taken down at your cost is probably the only way to sort. 

 

Wont be cheap but tbh unless one falls onto her house it sounds like no-one will do anything. 

 

If the others are in the gardens next door there is nothing you can do but make suggestions ...

[Invader75]

Update.

Tree surgeon came round for a site visit. He thought planning could be tricky given the problem trees and recommended the best, and first, course of action is to speak to owners (with cakes/tea) of problem conifers and suggest removal and replacement with suitable hedging.

Beech and Birch healthy but need slight trimming.

 

Removal of hedges, stumps, re plant, trimming of beach & birch. C

 

Just over £1000. Pricey or about right?

Edited May 9, 2017 by Invader75

[Onoff]

Hornbeam's lovely.

[Mr Punter]

Birch have a low water uptake and so not too much soil shrinkage / heave.  Beware willows and leylandii.

[bassanclan]

If you remove the trees then you still have to take them into account when designing foundations if it's clay soil and a shortish time period after removal

[Invader75]

3 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

If you remove the trees then you still have to take them into account when designing foundations if it's clay soil and a shortish time period after removal

Not clay soil. Even with ground screws?

[bassanclan]

No, not with ground screws, but surely there is no need to worry about trees if you are using ground screws. I presume the trees aren't protected or in a conservation area? It would seems strange to have a root protection zone otherwise, especially for such poor specimens.

 

Don't take planning advice from a tree surgeon! Why not go and get informal advice from the council (if it's free in your area).

[Ferdinand]

 

11 hours ago, bassanclan said:

No, not with ground screws, but surely there is no need to worry about trees if you are using ground screws. I presume the trees aren't protected or in a conservation area? It would seems strange to have a root protection zone otherwise, especially for such poor specimens.

 

Don't take planning advice from a tree surgeon! Why not go and get informal advice from the council (if it's free in your area).

 

I would usually talk to a Treeman first because - however good the advice - there is a risk of a Council TO (perhaps under incitement by neighbours or NIMBYs or Councillors seeking to gratify voters) slapping Emergency (or worse, Emergency Woodland) TPOs on things almost on the spot, and once it is in the system it can be a sod to get it out again even 10-20 years later.

 

If it is a CO or is TPO'd the Council may want / will require a report anyway most of the time.

 

The exception would be where I know my intentions and there is nothing the Council could possibly do which would interfere. 

 

In this case I may have got the work done on the birch / beech, and got a detailed Treeman verbal opinion on the other, and then asked the Council about the Leylandii. Anyhoo @PeterW has already given a brief well-informed opinion.

 

But I am in the position of having a continuing (and slightly too expensive) relationship with a couple of Treemen over the last several years, so I can get such opinions easily.

 

F

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Ferdinand

[jack]

 

11 hours ago, bassanclan said:

Don't take planning advice from a tree surgeon! Why not go and get informal advice from the council (if it's free in your area).

 

3 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I would usually talk to a Treeman first because - however good the advice - there is a risk of a Council TO (perhaps under incitement by neighbours or NIMBYs or Councillors seeking to gratify voters) slapping Emergency (or worse, Emergency Woodland) TPOs on things almost on the spot, and once it is in the system it can be a sod to get it out again even 10-20 years later.

 

I agree with @Ferdinand  Even informally approaching the tree officer in my local council would likely result in immediate protection orders being placed on whatever you're enquiring about!  They slapped TPOs on all the trees in my front garden when another potential buyer enquired about the tree situation before we bought the house.  We later learned that none of the trees is of sufficient quality for a TPO to be appropriate.

 

As it happened, we didn't need (or indeed want) to take them down, but if we had, and there hadn't been TPOs in place, talking to the tree guy at the council could well have started a long and potentially costly battle.

 

Also, if you get a decent local tree dude/dudette, they'll have experience with the council and know how best to approach what you want to do.  The guy we ended up using when we needed to trim a tree with a TPO on it was excellent.  

[Ferdinand]

PS

 

My qualifying criteria for a treeman would be roughly 5-10 years local experience of that Council, such that they can list the names of the TOs and tell me what their opinions will probably be.

 

That is roughly the same as the experience I would expect of Planning Consultant - that they should know the Planning Officers by name, and have an idea of their individual opinions.

 

For me, to talk to the Council first where I have a potential project I want to do is likely to be just too high a risk - especially were I to have already sunk my savings into it eg bought or optioned a plot.

 

It isn't just about doing what I want, it is also about identifying what I *need* to do or finding better ideas, which means talking to a number of people.

 

F

Edited May 10, 2017 by Ferdinand

[PeterW]

15 hours ago, Invader75 said:

Update.

Tree surgeon came round for a site visit. He thought planning could be tricky given the problem trees and recommended the best, and first, course of action is to speak to owners (with cakes/tea) of problem conifers and suggest removal and replacement with suitable hedging.

Beech and Birch healthy but need slight trimming.

 

Removal of hedges, stumps, re plant, trimming of beach & birch. C

 

Just over £1000. Pricey or about right?

 

Are the beech and birch in your garden or are you having work done for your neighbours too ..??! That's a bit over and above the course of neighbourly love .... you need to make your tree surgeon aware that you are paying as his insurance may have something to say about it in terms of liability. 

 

Those Leylandii have to go .... and there are two rules about asking councils for advice on trees :

 

1. Unless in a conservation area or a known TPO area, do not ask the council for advice on any tree matter. 

2. If in doubt, refer to rule 1.

 

Its most likely that your local council tree protection fashionista is shared between two or three councils and the county if you are lucky. They are already overstretched with the trees they have to inspect (parks, church yards, cemeteries etc) and your trees will be a hassle. 

 

Imposing an emergency TPO can be done from the comfort of a council office and takes minutes - they then have 8 weeks to make it permanent and if you're lucky they may even drive past the plot ...

 

And given that these aren't even in your garden, getting the council putting TPOs on someone else's trees is a sure fire way to lose friendly neighbours ..!!

 

You don't have to show trees on a planning application if they aren't in your garden anyway unless they have existing TPOs on them and are likely to be disturbed by the building works. 

 

Time to go and see old Mrs Smith with a bottle of Bristol Cream and a nice Victoria sandwich ...

[Invader75]

Cheers @PeterW

So, steps are. 
1. Decide on building design/supplier

2. Get plans

3. Go and see the old lady with cakes/tea/sherry

4. Deal with hedges/Leylandi
5. Get planning

Do you think the price our TS quoted is about right? In fairness, he's been in the business 17yrs and extremely efficient when dealing with our request. 

[PeterW]

I've no idea what he's planning on doing other than take out the Leylandi and not knowing where in the UK you are would also affect price. 

 

If he's talking about dropping, chipping and stump grinding those Leylandi and doing some reasonable canopy work on the others then it's 2-3 days and that's not a bad price. 

[Invader75]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I've no idea what he's planning on doing other than take out the Leylandi and not knowing where in the UK you are would also affect price. 

 

If he's talking about dropping, chipping and stump grinding those Leylandi and doing some reasonable canopy work on the others then it's 2-3 days and that's not a bad price. 

Thanks @PeterW

[Ferdinand]

10 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I've no idea what he's planning on doing other than take out the Leylandi and not knowing where in the UK you are would also affect price. 

 

If he's talking about dropping, chipping and stump grinding those Leylandi and doing some reasonable canopy work on the others then it's 2-3 days and that's not a bad price. 

 

If you convert that into 4-6 man (team will be at least 2, one climber) days and supplying chippers and kit and so on, then you see it is at £150-175 per man day.

 

F

[Invader75]

34 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

If you convert that into 4-6 man (team will be at least 2, one climber) days and supplying chippers and kit and so on, then you see it is at £150-175 per man day.

 

F

thought as much. It's my first experience of using tree surgeons and wanted to make sure it was competitive but more importantly, knowledgable as it's not really a straightforward job dealing with the old dear. 

[Ed_MK]

it could be a lot worse .

if she was younger and the type that flounce around in a kaftan nailing wind chimes to anything that stands still long enough..then you would be in a world of pain...I got told.once that if i even cut branches on MY side it would hurt her trees and she would Sue me for it...

 

she was as mad as a jar of wasps. .used to flING cat excrement back over my fence....I didn't even OWN A CAT 

 

thank God I moved! !