Floorplans - any suggestions welcome and appreciated!

[Selfbuildnewbie]

Hi everyone,

 

We've thinking through options, given the feedback you guys have given us, before we have a call with the architect.

 

We will reduce the gable on the front and push the front door back in line with the bay window.  We're moving the study downstairs and getting rid of the store room. We aren't intending to replace the study upstairs - instead we're thinking of putting a skylight or dormer in, with natural light straight onto the landing and putting a reading nook / extra study space on the landing for when we're both working from home.

 

 

We've been considering @CharlieKLP 's suggestion of doing the same at the back, making the single storey longer and reducing the width of the gable.  It would look much better from the outside but we obviously lose internal floor space.

 

I've mocked up two floor plan concepts:  #1 has the existing wide gable at the back and #2 follows Charlie's suggestion.  (Please be gentle!, I've drawn these in Excel of all things and the architect would no doubt "tighten it up").

 

 

Any thoughts on which works better?

 

We like #1 because:

• the dressing room is tucked away off the Master bedroom 
• Beds 2 and 3 are nearer each other (we have twins)
• Potential for grander staircase
• But we don't like that the guest bedroom is oversized and bigger than beds 2 & 3 (and beds 2 & 3 also have dormers so have less useable floor space anyway)
• We don't like that the family bathroom is a bit squashed in between beds 2 & 3

We like #2 because:

• Smaller gable at the back - looks nicer
• Slightly lower build costs
• Beds 2 and 3 have much better dimensions than before, particularly given bed 2 has a dormer
• Bigger family bathroom and bigger master ensuite
• Stairs cut into what was an oversized playroom so we gain more space elsewhere on ground floor (e.g. for utility or storage)
• The downside is we'd have to walk through the dressing room to get to master bedroom

 

 

[Selfbuildnewbie]

Attaching in case pics are too small.

 

Thanks!

Large gable at back.pdf Small gable at back.pdf

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

Don’t worry about having to walk through the dressing room. We have the same and find it keeps the bedroom tidier (fewer clothes dumped in random piles) and quieter and more private. Our en-suite also opens off our dressing room. It’s not something we’ve ever worried about tho the experts ( @ETC, @CharlieKLP ) might disagree!

[CharlieKLP]

Lol! No disagreements here… I would call it a Master Suite and put a chaise lounge in there, classy.

 

 I prefer a bathroom opening off a dressing room than a bathroom too. I was in France in a hotel with my other half with no door on the bathroom, absolute scenes. 0/10

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

44 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said:

Lol! No disagreements here… I would call it a Master Suite and put a chaise lounge in there, classy.

Great minds! Tho our chaise is in the bedroom.

 

45 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said:

prefer a bathroom opening off a dressing room than a bathroom too. I was in France in a hotel with my other half with no door on the bathroom, absolute scenes. 0/10

In Vienna last year, bathroom (wet room!) had glass walls. Yup. Full translucent glass.

[Gus Potter]

4 hours ago, Selfbuildnewbie said:

(Please be gentle!, I've drawn these in Excel of all things and the architect would no doubt "tighten it up").

Brilliant! Well done.. you have conveyed the info, doesn't matter what tools you use to do it.

 

@CotswoldDoItUpper "Seeing everyone’s opinion come together to help guide design is great. "

 

Yes it's good fun and enjoyable.

 

@Selfbuildnewbie

Looking ahead with an SE hat on. What you have looks doable without spending loads on money on a structural stability scheme that often gets hidden at the end of the day. You may just need some extra structure to prevent the building moving sideways along the rear elevation on the ground floor. Much will depend on where you are in the country, the elevation and method of construction. Keep aside an extra 5k for this for now just in case. If you don't use it then I'm sure you will still find use for the spare cash.

 

Funnily in terms of the stair alone I think option one is best for highlighting a feature stair. Option two gives you plenty floor space.. but with a hall that size you could put some furniture in to compliment the pictures on the walls and decor say.. with a big hall you can make it appear like another room but still maintain plenty circulation space, diffuse and direct light. Option one would allow you to explore this as you could put a seat and coat stand on the left of the front door. Don't rule out using the hall as another "quasi" reception room.

 

The great thing about a big hall is by changing the pictures, furniture and a tweak of the lighting you can easily change the first impression when you enter the house. Houses are for playing with as you grow older, not just for xmas!

 

[Selfbuildnewbie]

On 21/02/2022 at 21:04, Gus Potter said:

Funnily in terms of the stair alone I think option one is best for highlighting a feature stair.

 

I think we're inclined to keep the stairs where they are as a focal point rather than end up with a large space that needs filling.  But also amend the back as per option 2.  Not sure both are feasible but a nice challenge for the architect ?Thanks for your earlier suggestions as well.

[crispy_wafer]

No expert in design, but one oversight I made on mine which then lead to a bit of a redesign when we started building was provisioning for a plant room, somewhere for the UFH heating gubbins, HW cylinder, MVHR, home networking equip etc to be placed.  Doesn't need to be a huge space, but maybe something to consider.

[Selfbuildnewbie]

20 minutes ago, crispy_wafer said:

No expert in design, but one oversight I made on mine which then lead to a bit of a redesign when we started building was provisioning for a plant room, somewhere for the UFH heating gubbins, HW cylinder, MVHR, home networking equip etc to be placed.  Doesn't need to be a huge space, but maybe something to consider.

Great shout, it's something that has just occurred to us and not currently factored in, perhaps will have to go in the utility space.  We're looking at heat pumps at the moment, architect has suggested using ASHP, but the negative reviews about them often not being designed or installed correctly is very off-putting. Looks like they require a lot of space internally for the equipment from the pictures people post online.

Architect also suggested considering ICF rather than traditional masonry construction, given can easily get passivhaus standards with ECF, but it doesn't seem to be that commonly used and there seem to be a lack of builders/contractors who have used ICF.  Any views on ICF and if worth properly considering?

[Selfbuildnewbie]

On 18/02/2022 at 00:45, TerryE said:

If this is a self-build then scan the forum on building passive standard or near.  We have one: all the rooms are the same temp within a degree or so; it costs little to keep it cozy (22½ °C everywhere).  You'll need decent insulation for slab, walls and roof to get the U-values under 0.15, air tight by design, MVHR, under floor heating.  You also need to think about services and their placement and service runs. 

@TerryE will have a hunt round the forum, thanks. Did you manage to achieve this with masonry construction or did you go down a different route?

[crispy_wafer]

1 hour ago, Selfbuildnewbie said:

Great shout, it's something that has just occurred to us and not currently factored in, perhaps will have to go in the utility space.  We're looking at heat pumps at the moment, architect has suggested using ASHP, but the negative reviews about them often not being designed or installed correctly is very off-putting. Looks like they require a lot of space internally for the equipment from the pictures people post online.

Architect also suggested considering ICF rather than traditional masonry construction, given can easily get passivhaus standards with ECF, but it doesn't seem to be that commonly used and there seem to be a lack of builders/contractors who have used ICF.  Any views on ICF and if worth properly considering?

 

ICF is a good shout and well worth considering, however going back to services have a think about the MVHR placement and ducting runs at this design stage, (if you are planning MVHR that is) - again something I didn't do and has required a bit of extra thinking on my part with regards to location of the unit and the ducting runs.

 

Ours is traditional brick and block with full fill PIR in the cavity.  No idea how well this will work in reality, PIR in the cavity really does depend on it being done right and to be honest there aren't many brickies out there thinking about installing it right, as per manufacturers instructions - too much like hard work for them.  if/When I do this again then wider cavity will be the order of the day, then get the cavity pumped with beads afterwards.

 

With ASHP all quotes we've had have been based on the SAP, but this is/was all theoretical at that point, and I've no idea how the house will perform yet, in terms of energy efficiency...   One supplier quoted me a smallish unit, another quoted me a bigger unit.  I think most of the stuff for an ASHP is outside, you'll then have the HW cylinder and the plumbing to UFH manifolds etc indoors.

 

Something else to consider, with the roofspace think about specifying attic trusses, they wont cost you much extra, but they will give you a usable space without needing to be a contortionist to access.

[TerryE]

1 hour ago, Selfbuildnewbie said:

Did you manage to achieve this with masonry construction or did you go down a different route?

 

Perhaps the easiest route to low U-value walls is to use an internal timber frame. A lot of companies will prefab these in factory and ship to and erect on site.  We used MBC (with an outer stone skin, because it was a planning requirement), but there are other vendors referenced in various topics.  Single wall TF is cheaper an will get you to 0.15.  Twin wall is airtight by design and will get you to 0.12.

 

Other have used techniques such as ICF, and even conventional block inner with a 200 gap filled with Rockwool both of which should give you ~0.15.

 

Getting airtightness with an inner block leaf can be a bit of a PITA though.  Again lots of discussions on this.

Edited February 23, 2022 by TerryE

[CharlieKLP]

If you go with ICF bear in mind dormers are tricky, especially the cheeks. Your dormer is a part of the front so I’m not sure how you would keep it the same plane and support the sides. I’m sure it’s doable, but I’d like to see a detail before you pick ICF. Otherwise maybe clad it with weatherboard.

Edited February 23, 2022 by CharlieKLP

[ETC]

@Selfbuildnewbie

[Selfbuildnewbie]

Thanks @ETC, really appreciate this. 

[ETC]

No problem. I hope it helps.

 

Keep an eye on your bedroom sizes. I have assumed a double bed and have left minimum distances around them. I have also shown a larger 2.0mx2.0m bed in the master bedroom.

 

I’m happy to elevate the plans if you’d like - just let me know.

[Selfbuildnewbie]

Hi everyone, 

 

We have an updated set of floor plans back from our architect.  Front elevation has been changed to more in line with what @CharlieKLP and @ETC suggested and the store room has been replaced by a study. We couldn't find a way to change the large gable on the rear without over-compromising on the floor plan though.

 

We'd appreciate any suggestions on the following:

1. Finding somewhere for a fairly large coat/shoe cupboard in the vicinity of the front door.  Our architect hasn't currently found anywhere suitable aside from a small cupboard under the stairs and it's a bit too far from the front door.  The only solution I can think of is to push the stairs back by, say, half a metre, make the kitchen 4.8m deep rather than 5.4m and then fit the coat cupboard in on the right hand side at bottom of the stairs, with a pocket door. We'd put kitchen units or cupboards under the half-landing of the stairs (if that is structurally possible?) so, in effect, retaining a 5.4m deep kitchen. I've mocked that idea up, see below - I would appreciate any thoughts on whether that could work. Any other ideas on how we could fit the cupboard in?
2. Access from kitchen/diner to living room - the architect has suggested inserting two 1.1m pocket doors between the kitchen/diner and living room (one at each end) which can be left open most of the time. That fits our brief for a "broken plan" feel but we're not sure it completely works as drawn at the moment. Presumably it would be better if the dining table was turned 90 degrees?  And the pocket door at the bottom is too central on the living room wall and currently opens onto the back of a sofa.  Any suggestions for how it could be made better?

Any other comments on the floor plans also very welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Selfbuildnewbie

[Adsibob]

On 17/02/2022 at 23:30, CharlieKLP said:

Arts and crafts is less symmetrical I guess. You would not find a gable with 4 different shaped windows on it though.

 

Just my opinion but you can get an easy win by simplifying the window panes.

 

 

I agree. @CharlieKLP’s windows look much better

[Adsibob]

@Selfbuildnewbie this is better, but the en-suite for bedroom 2 is tiny. You could make it 40cm longer by taking away some space from that rather large cupboard. Unless that cupboard is for a UVC. Where is your UVC going? Architects often forget about the importance of locating these somewhere central to all HW outlets. And depending on what size UVC you will be going for, you might need your SE to chime in on its location as well, otherwise you might find out too late that you don’t have the support for it.

[CharlieKLP]

I think maybe the porch would look better sloping forwards? 
 

[ETC]

Sorry.

 

I don’t like it very much.

 

I think both the plan and elevations need simplifying, the main roof is big enough for another storey ( it looks out of scale with the rest of the house) and both the porch and the mono-pitched roof at the back are bolted onto the house rather than part of it. The study is too small and your designer should really think about the location of your bathroom/shower room sanitary ware in relation to windows. Better to get natural light and ventilation rather than relying on mechanical ventilation.

 

Did you design this yourself and give it to someone to draw up or did your plan drawer design this?

 

Hand the staircase and make a cloakroom from part of the utility room, rotate the dining table 90 degrees and use a shelving unit as a room divider rather than pocket doors.

[Iceverge]

Well done for coming back for more!

 

I would nab 300mm extra depth from somewhere for the study to allow it become a double bedroom if required.

 

There is a step in the external wall between the kitchen and the living room, I cant see why. I would get rid. 

 

If you want to create a visual division here just use a downpipe, speaking of which I would draw the rest of them in now. It doesn't look like they've been considered yet.

[Selfbuildnewbie]

2 hours ago, ETC said:

Hand the staircase and make a cloakroom from part of the utility room

@ETC, typo? Would you mind describing or sketching out what you mean?
 

2 hours ago, ETC said:

I think both the plan and elevations need simplifying, the main roof is big enough for another storey ( it looks out of scale with the rest of the house) and both the porch and the mono-pitched roof at the back are bolted onto the house rather than part of it.

Believe me, there's been a lot of discussion about the roof with the architect!  The rationale given is that the neighbouring properties are both small chalets with fairly low rooflines and both are very close to us (within 2-3 metres on each side of us). One in particular has a bedroom window facing our plot. So it's a been designed as a chalet-style rather than a 2 storey house to be in keeping and to avoid blocking light. The roof height has then been raised to maximise the internal full-height space in Beds 2 and 3.  I presume that reducing the height of the main roof to be more in scale with the rest of the house would mean there is more unusable space in Beds 2 and 3?
 

2 hours ago, ETC said:

Did you design this yourself and give it to someone to draw up or did your plan drawer design this?

Designed for us based on our brief.  My own drawings are just me trying to get my head around what could work and what doesn't - I find it quite hard to visualise the options directly from the architect's plans otherwise.

[Selfbuildnewbie]

1 hour ago, Iceverge said:

There is a step in the external wall between the kitchen and the living room, I cant see why. I would get rid. 

On the previous version, where the back wall was straight all the way across, the eaves and guttering of the single-storey roof protruded past the back of the house. Our architect suggested pushing back the living room wall very slightly to avoid that.  

[ETC]

7 hours ago, Selfbuildnewbie said:

On the previous version, where the back wall was straight all the way across, the eaves and guttering of the single-storey roof protruded past the back of the house. Our architect suggested pushing back the living room wall very slightly to avoid that.  

Why? The cost and hassle to step the wall heavily outweighs the look of a gutter and soffit/fascia overhang. And in any case the verge could be flush with no need to go past the wall.