Vertical PV panels

[gravelrash]

When I started my project the PV did not cost out as so close to gas main and flat roof forced by planning...now the lecy and gas has gone up the sums add up a lot better for PV.

Due to roof I was thinking of building 18m fence south facing with pv panels. Obviously I will loose efficiency in summer but gain in winter which is really when I need it most. Has anyone else used vertical panels? How was the output? How do the panels cope with wind?

[ProDave]

@Stones fitted some vertically at the same time as I did my ground mount system.  Perhaps he will come along and say how they are doing.

[SteamyTea]

Have you run it through PVGIS to see how it compares to putting modules flat on the roof?

You may be better off with an East West fence with modules on either side.

Edited February 4, 2022 by SteamyTea

[gravelrash]

  On 04/02/2022 at 12:05, SteamyTea said:

Have you run it through PVGIS to see how it compares to putting modules flat on the roof?

You may be better off with an East West fence with modules on either side.

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thats presuming  i had a suitable east/west fence without shadowing and the roof slopes back towards North with restriction on roof height with no permitted development rights.

Going the fence route... its a fence if anyone asks.

[A_L]

  On 04/02/2022 at 12:51, gravelrash said:

Going the fence route.

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Bifacial (two sided) panels might be worth investigating, even a North-South fence?

 

https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2018/04/what-are-bifacial-solar-modules/

 

just search for 'bifacial panels' for manufacturers

[DamonHD]

  On 04/02/2022 at 11:54, gravelrash said:

When I started my project the PV did not cost out as so close to gas main and flat roof forced by planning...now the lecy and gas has gone up the sums add up a lot better for PV.

Due to roof I was thinking of building 18m fence south facing with pv panels. Obviously I will loose efficiency in summer but gain in winter which is really when I need it most. Has anyone else used vertical panels? How was the output? How do the panels cope with wind?

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Yes, for off grid.  Output is good considering location, but half what it might be because in shadow from the house until nearly noon.

 

Rgds

 

Damon

 

https://www.earth.org.uk/expanding-off-grid-PV-system.html#20160722

[Marvin]

18 degrees off vertical is about optimum for UK winter PV power. Watch outforthelong shadows though..  

[SteamyTea]

  On 04/02/2022 at 18:04, Marvin said:

18 degrees off vertical is about optimum for UK winter PV power. Watch outforthelong shadows though..  

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Make a wall/fence/frame that is tilted.

Edited February 4, 2022 by SteamyTea

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

If it’s a ground mounted ‘fence’ that’s over 9sqm does it need planning permission? #GettingAroundTheRules

[gravelrash]

  On 04/02/2022 at 21:52, CotswoldDoItUpper said:

If it’s a ground mounted ‘fence’ that’s over 9sqm does it need planning permission? #GettingAroundTheRules

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I thought the 9m2 rule was just for commercial not domestic

 

[Stones]

  On 04/02/2022 at 12:05, ProDave said:

@Stones fitted some vertically at the same time as I did my ground mount system.  Perhaps he will come along and say how they are doing.

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They have performed as PVGIS suggested, lower output compared to mounting on the roof, but reasonable none the less. The array I have produces circa 20% less compared to being roof mounted at 45 degree pitch.  Mine are fixed to the garage wall so no issues with wind (which can get quite brisk here!)

[SteamyTea]

  On 05/02/2022 at 08:30, gravelrash said:

I thought the 9m2 rule was just for commercial not domestic

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The 9m² is for domestic.

Commercial is totally different legislation. Mainly because they are dealing in hectares, 10,000 m², rather that a few m².

Worth remembering that for every rule that says you should do something, there is another that says you can't.

[gravelrash]

  On 05/02/2022 at 13:26, SteamyTea said:

The 9m² is for domestic.

Commercial is totally different legislation. Mainly because they are dealing in hectares, 10,000 m², rather that a few m².

Worth remembering that for every rule that says you should do something, there is another that says you can't.

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bit of a conundrum. when is a fence not a fence...would keep a solicitor in fancy cars for years.

Edited February 5, 2022 by gravelrash

[SteamyTea]

  On 05/02/2022 at 16:05, gravelrash said:

when is a fence not a fence..

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Or how low is a roof.

Generally a fence can be 6 foot high I think.

Modules are usually 1m wide by 1.6m tall.

If you tilt that fence as I suggest, you will get more modules on it, and better yields.

Say it is to deflect noise. Works by quantum effects.

 

[gramos]

I used  a wall and put a fence on top which gave  the perfect angle to mount the panels .

Locally @ 37 degrees

[DamonHD]

That's good for maximising summer (and overall) generation in the UK with south-facing panels.

 

If you want to have the least short-fall / best putput in winter then the optimum angle is much nearer vertical as described above for south facing, or likely much nearer horizontal if facing other than fairly south.

 

Rgds

 

Damon

[gravelrash]

  On 06/02/2022 at 20:41, gramos said:

I used  a wall and put a fence on top which gave  the perfect angle to mount the panels .

Locally @ 37 degrees

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Did you have to get planning permission?

[SteamyTea]

Don't get power (kW) and energy (kWh) mixed up with changing module angles.  Energy yield was good when you got paid for generation and a deemed export, but now power may be more useful, even if only for a limited time during the winter.

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

  On 10/02/2022 at 14:58, SteamyTea said:

Don't get power (kW) and energy (kWh) mixed up with changing module angles.  Energy yield was good when you got paid for generation and a deemed export, but now power may be more useful, even if only for a limited time during the winter.

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This is interesting, how would you recommend siting the panels? I’m trying to work out (sear Stroud) what angle would be best for all year round use (4kW array, 3.6kW inverter). 

[SteamyTea]

  On 10/02/2022 at 21:17, CotswoldDoItUpper said:

This is interesting, how would you recommend siting the panels? I’m trying to work out (sear Stroud) what angle would be best for all year round use (4kW array, 3.6kW inverter). 

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Assuming no shading, I would just run the angles though PVGIS and initially see which gives the best energy yield.

So something like this:

 

0⁰

 

 

25⁰

 

 

50⁰

 

 

75⁰

 

 

90⁰

 

 

Then decide when I need the energy most i.e. 75⁰ gives best yield in winter.

Then I would look at the hourly data for that month i.e. December.

Initially the mean, min and max by hour of day.

Chart title is wrong, it is just showing December data.

 

Then the percentage frequency that those powers (W) actually happen.

 

 

Then decide if I can find a use for those power levels.

 

(I based this on Stroud and a 1 kW_p grid tied system for simplicity)

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by SteamyTea

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

I guess we would look at maximum yearly usage. We have an annual use of around 20,000kWh (2 x EV) so will easily self use. 
 

I’ll have a look at PVGIS and work done things out. Didn’t realise it could do hourly data too! Does it take into account average sunny/cloudy days?

[SteamyTea]

  On 10/02/2022 at 23:11, CotswoldDoItUpper said:

Does it take into account average sunny/cloudy days

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Yes.

[SteamyTea]

  On 10/02/2022 at 23:11, CotswoldDoItUpper said:

We have an annual use of around 20,000kWh (2 x EV) so will easily self use. 

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There may be a minimum power requirement to start charging them, so they may have to be topped up from the grid at the same time.  That time slot may be expensive.

[severnside]

Generally car charging standard need minimum 1.2kW to work. Zappi charger we have will keep charging paused until it has 1.2kW surplus. Under that it goes into hot water via tank.

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

@severnside think we might be getting a new charger then! Been using the Granny charger for 2 years!

 

@SteamyTea think we use about 8-9000kWh for normal domestic usage anyway so hopefully the PV will cover some of that load as well as the cars.