Temp Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Vodafone has announced it will switch off 3G by the end of 2023 and 2G by end of 2025. I thought most smart nevers needed one or the other so looks like many smart meters will need replacing or manual reading in just three years time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 UK Smart meters use Telefónica / O2 as back haul, so it will depend on their turn down timeline. That said I think UK govt are planning to withdraw the license for 2G spectrum in the not crazy distance future. There's some lightweight analysis of the issues in https://www.stark.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/20200801-Response-to-the-2020-consultation.pdf (section 5.4) and https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html claims that the meters will be exchanged for 4G versions by 2033. (Why not 5G I ask myself...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 More of a concern to me as someone with only weak 2g phone signal at home, is will the 2g switch off mean they finally get their finger out and give is 4g coverage? Or will we be left with none? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 47 minutes ago, ProDave said: More of a concern to me as someone with only weak 2g phone signal at home, is will the 2g switch off mean they finally get their finger out and give is 4g coverage? Or will we be left with none? +1 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, ProDave said: More of a concern to me as someone with only weak 2g phone signal at home, is will the 2g switch off mean they finally get their finger out and give is 4g coverage? Or will we be left with none? Hopefully? The main driver for discontinuing 2G support is to free up the big blocks of spectrum they use (900 & 1800 MHz) for the much more space efficient 3G and 4G protocols. /me makes note to self to replace the Car and Cat GPS trackers by 2033. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 We have a smart electric meter - keep being asked for meter reading or get estimated bills, there a complete waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, JohnMo said: We have a smart electric meter - keep being asked for meter reading or get estimated bills, there a complete waste of time. Mine manages to communicate a few times a year so bills are very misleading, and still no idea how they are supposed to save energy? My machines all use whatever power they need while I’m using them, the meter simply records what I use and saves a meter reader coming to see me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, markc said: still no idea how they are supposed to save energy That was marketing/PR hype. I seem to remember reading that a mobile network base station used 5MWh/year. Not sure if I remember it right as that works out at just under 600W. A small microwave oven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 hours ago, joth said: /me makes note to self to replace the Car and Cat GPS trackers by 2033. Looks more like 2023 There are a huge number of vehicle trackers using 3G data only sims, I mean like 100's of thousands. I know because I used to be involved in their development and one of my CEM's still knocks them out on his pick'n'place machines. Dunno what's going on really and like others here, I'm in a 4G blindspot (quite near a mast but down a slope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, Radian said: Looks more like 2023 There are a huge number of vehicle trackers using 3G data only sims, I mean like 100's of thousands. I know because I used to be involved in their development and one of my CEM's still knocks them out on his pick'n'place machines. Dunno what's going on really and like others here, I'm in a 4G blindspot (quite near a mast but down a slope). Er I think we're going in circles here: see the OP and my first reply. Vodafone are turning it down from 2023, but O2 (as used must M2M users) will be years longer, not least because smart meters depend on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 Vodaphone and O2 have did have a mast sharing deal. O2 errect and maintain masts in the East and Vodaphone the West of the country. Perhaps Vodaphone will sell their 2G masts to O2 or ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Temp said: Vodaphone and O2 have did have a mast sharing deal. O2 errect and maintain masts in the East and Vodaphone the West of the country. Perhaps Vodaphone will sell their 2G masts to O2 or ? Or install 3G, 4G and 5G antenna on the masts? Or even maybe reuse the 2G antenna for 4G, given the spectrum reallocation and software defined radio they'll soon be making this sort of change without any site visit. It's not like yodafone is going out of business. Edited January 25, 2022 by joth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 5 hours ago, joth said: Or install 3G, 4G and 5G antenna on the masts? Or even maybe reuse the 2G antenna for 4G, given the spectrum reallocation and software defined radio they'll soon be making this sort of change without any site visit. It's not like yodafone is going out of business. No but I think most (?) smart meters installed rely on 2G and cant use 4 or 5G at the moment. Anyway it looks like the smart meter program is going to have to pay to keep 2G going.. 11 hours ago, joth said: UK Smart meters use Telefónica / O2 as back haul, so it will depend on their turn down timeline. That said I think UK govt are planning to withdraw the license for 2G spectrum in the not crazy distance future. There's some lightweight analysis of the issues in https://www.stark.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/20200801-Response-to-the-2020-consultation.pdf (section 5.4) and https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html claims that the meters will be exchanged for 4G versions by 2033. (Why not 5G I ask myself...) From that first link which @joth posted.. . As indicated in the NAO report, the potential risks of premature termination of the 2G network, which underpins some of the DCC’s infrastructure, are mitigated by the fact that the underlying contract is valid until 2028 and could be further extended until 2033. However, BEIS’s CBA does not consider to what extent the cost of maintaining that contract could increase over time. It is reasonable to assume that under unfavourable circumstances, the provider would require an increased payment for the maintenance of the 2G network, which would, in turn, increase the costs of the scheme. The full costs of continuing to operate the 2G network in order to support smart meters could be substantial. A significant component of this is the opportunity cost of the 900MHz and 1800MHz radio spectrum that these networks use. Shutting down 2G networks could free this resource so that it could be re-used by other more valuable services such as 4G and 5G mobile services. snip On this basis, it is reasonable to assume that a significant portion of the costs of keeping the 2G network would be attributable to the smart meters programme. So it looks like the smart meter program can insist 2G is continued until 2033 but they may have to pay for it to be maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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