Complete newbie - first build

[Ferdinand]

Completing the Construction can be an expected requirement for a sale, though you can buy your purchaser an indemnity policy.

 

If this is your Decline and Die In house, then that would not be your problem.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Adamantium]

understood.

 

Anyone familiar with the level of enforcement of Environment agency byelaws with regard to building within 8m of a small brook? Will be invisible to all but one neighbour who is trying to move.

[Adamantium]

2 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Completing the Construction can be an expected requirement for a sale, though you can buy your purchaser an indemnity policy.

 

If this is your Decline and Die In house, then that would not be your problem.

 

I do plan to never move again, except to retire to San Diego, that said, healthcare insurance out there would mean I'd still need to be "based here" if things were bad.

[Adamantium]

Meeting with architect today, the number of consultants he was putting forward has frightened the life out of me but it does seem that he's well organised.

 

The elemental cost analysis also came back from the QS. Only 50% over budget - at least it included 5% contingency.

 

I've gone through 1 out of 102 pages and managed to shave off 5 of the 50% but I don't think that rate is going to continue.

 

What I'm wondering is if this site has a recommendations page.

 

Surely there must be some benefit to sharing contacts who have been excellent/reasonable, or even suppliers to save costs.

 

I'm looking for someone to do a surface water drainage study but crucially I need an M+E consultant who I suspect is going to become my pal, as I'm more likely to engage with this guy than anyone else.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Adam

[Jeremy Harris]

I found that I could get away without using most of the barking mad number of "consultants" that initially seemed to be required, by spending my own time on doing the work.  The cost saving was substantial, as I'm afraid that self-builders seem to be looked upon like yacht owners - ripe to be ripped off by those who claim that you "have" to use their services!

 

The number of people with their hands out for money was staggering, and in the end the only two people we had to pay for were the hydrogeology guy, for our borehole drilling plan, and the SAP assessor to lodge the EPC.

 

We were building adjacent to a brook, so had to have a flood risk assessment, and that was going to come in at around £4k, so I spent two days sifting through data and making requests for information from the Environment Agency and then I wrote the flood risk assessment myself, which was accepted by the planners without any questions.  I did the same with the design stage SAP, and building control were happy to accept that from me as well, which saved another fee.  I also designed the house, and did the planning and  did the building regs applications and drawings, which saved another substantial sum.

 

It depends how much time you have available - in my case I had the free time, and would rather learn how to do things myself than pay someone else a big fee to do for me.

[PeterW]

2 hours ago, Adamantium said:

The elemental cost analysis also came back from the QS. Only 50% over budget - at least it included 5% contingency.

 

Did the QS know the budget and have you paid him ..?? I would go back and suggest they value engineer it for you - if you've paid out for a QS service they should be looking for the savings. 

[Gone West]

14 hours ago, Adamantium said:

Meeting with architect today, the number of consultants he was putting forward has frightened the life out of me but it does seem that he's well organised.

 

The only 'professionals' I've used on my build are a structural engineer, airtightness assessor and SAP assessor. I think what @JSHarris said about self builders being seen as a gravy train is right, certainly with larger builds.

[Ferdinand]

15 hours ago, Adamantium said:

 

Meeting with architect today, the number of consultants he was putting forward has frightened the life out of me but it does seem that he's well organised.

 

If you are going to need a football or rugby team of consultants, then imo on a scheme such as yours it is a good test of your architect's suitability for managing the whole thing that he can come up with suitable recommendations. However, I seem to recall that your architect is one to whom you are particularly attached, in which case you may need a Planning Consultant type to help you find the right other consultants. 

 

Elsewhere I think I suggested building a relationship with a local experienced MRICS, who may be the person to turn to.

 

Ferdinand

[Adamantium]

Thanks guys. I have time but not infinite amounts.

 

The architect so far has been genuinely staggered/impressed by my amount of involvement and research. He only does new build houses and has managed 220 so far. He's well used to co-ordinating consultants and is certainly not insisting on any of them.

 

Where I have indicated a preference to use one (M+E for example) he has prepared quotes from different suppliers local to me who he has used before and has been impressed by. There doesn't seem to be any loyalty to one over another, in fact on three occasions he has found the best to be almost a quarter of the price of some of the others he has been happy with previously. I'm just glad he is acting as a central port of call and is comfortable with that.

 

The QS hasn't been paid yet but value engineering is the next planned stage. the architect wants involvement by questionning every aspect of the spec, but before I cut anything out i can see many areas to reduce the cost, I'm just not sure what to do first.

 

 

[Adamantium]

Every avenue I've looked at for a decent M+E consultant/designer has drawn a blank.

 

No one I know across all trades has been happy enough to recommend anyone.

 

I believe this person will end up being the most important person on the build to me, which is why it's essential I find the right man for the job.

 

So far reports have suggested strength in one area but not others. Many people recommend leaving it to the AV company, but AV guys don't understand plumbing, and while they may understand lighting and automation, are not happy when it comes to mvhr or air con (can these be combined?).

 

Is there no one who can be considered an "expert" in all the above, good enough to map out the whole house?

 

 

[jack]

My impression (and it's just an impression) is that ordinary houses just aren't big or complex enough to justify the sort of integrated M&E design that you might get on a large commercial project. If you do find someone, I'm going to take a stab and say that they'll be eye-wateringly expensive.

 

I wouldn't have suggested an AV company as a likely lead in this area, for the reasons you mention. 

 

Are you planning a lot of complex systems that will need integrating and/or designing/fitting around each other? If not, then I suspect you'll be fine having individual trades taking care of their respective areas.  If you're having home automation, it's probably useful if they do all the electrics.

 

The main things to remember are that plumbing (and drainage in particular) isn't very flexible, so you want to make sure you have clear paths with the required falls mapped out. MVHR is a little more flexible, but still has a lot of constraints in terms of needing to be relatively straight and with no "dips", plus you need to make sure the main unit is positioned sensibly in the house (ie, as centrally as possible, but with minimal length runs to the outside of the house).  

 

Other than those two, other services have a fair bit more flexibility, and can usually work around whatever's there.

[Adamantium]

I'm a firm believer in well designed plumbing.

 

Water pressure and flow is very important to me, and things like routing, isolation valves, bend radii etc can make a huge difference to efficiency, noise and performance. In my experience, most plumbers are more concerned with profit than performance - I can't allow that to be the case on my build. 

[Bitpipe]

 

9 minutes ago, Adamantium said:

I'm a firm believer in well designed plumbing.

 

Water pressure and flow is very important to me, and things like routing, isolation valves, bend radii etc can make a huge difference to efficiency, noise and performance. In my experience, most plumbers are more concerned with profit than performance - I can't allow that to be the case on my build. 

 

Our plumber (firm, not a sole trader) did a detailed design, calculating flows at every stage, etc etc before we signed off on the proposal. He had a team of lads do the actual work but was onsite a lot himself and pitched in when needed. Our house was 400m2 and it was too big a job for most solo plumbers to quote on.

 

Electrician quoted the same way where there were planning overlaps (heating system) we just let them agree between them how to proceed (costs were equivalent). He was more solo but brought in more hands during first fix to speed things up and also had an AV mate who got pulled in at key moments.

 

A decent trade should be doing such design as routine, you should not need a M&E consultant unless you have some very complex systems working together.

 

 

 

[Solutions]

Similar question ... How did you get CIL exemption with out planning ? 

 

Build term, if you have a good builder, 500sqm, from when they get in to site till completion, 7- 8 months tops, for a traditional build. 5-7 for a continental full wall. 

If you want to finish it in 4-5 months, negotiate with the builder for payment at completion of works and a pay-up the hotel bill if there are delays ... That will make them Speedy Gonzales

 

Fixed price, no problem, have a good BIM with a detailed 3D that leaves no room for interpretation and you get yourself a fix price. 

As long as you give the builder ALL the details, it is his fault if he "missed" stuff.

 

If you want freedom to change your mind about finishings, negotiate a fix price with allowances, for finishing materials. Example, if your allowance for tiles is £50/sqm and you decide on a £40/sqm you get back £10, if you want a £60/sqm, you pay up an extra £10. 

 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Do you not mean firm price?  A fixed price contract allows for some variation in the final price, depending on the reason, a firm price contract doesn't.

 

If there is significant risk involved, then it's not likely that either a firm price or fixed price contract will give best value, as the builder will just add the risk contingency into the pricing.  It can really pay dividends to break the work down into smaller contracted elements sometimes, just as a cost and risk mitigation measure.  The best example is probably breaking ground works out from the build contract, as most of the risk will be in the ground works usually.  As risk pricing will be on a percentage of total price basis, restricting the greatest risk elements to a smaller overall proportion of the whole cost can make a significant difference in price.

[Solutions]

Hi JS, 

 

I agree that the higher risks are on ground works, but you can easily eliminate the surprises.

 

I give you an example as a PM on slightly more complicated job. 

 

- got in a serious set of surveys and literally scan every single square meter - (never trusted the paper information, too many times ive found ground pipes or cables where there should not be).

- soil survey over the top with bore holes every 5 meters 

- proper shoring and piling

- 2 serious mud pumps 

 

Result, 110sqm basement, 3.2m high with 4 sides piled wall 9m deep. Total cost £176k waterproofing included and 22% margin ... The budget allocated by the architect £320k.

 

Like i said, provide all the information to the builder and he has no reason not to accept a fixed or firm price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

FWIW, I spent an inordinate amount of time and effort in taking risk out of the ground works (which was where three quarters of our build risk was), so understand the problems extremely well indeed!

 

However, even people that have done very good due diligence checks can get caught, and a read through here will reveal loads of ground work related issues, many of which could not have been easily predicted. 

 

There's also the big problem of cost of investigations.  For a single plot of modest value, things like the mobilisation cost of drilling rigs, let alone the cost per metre for borehole drilling (something I'm painfully and intimately familiar with!) can be very costly.  In our case, we bought a plot worth around £150k, for a lot less, then spent well over £50k on ground works just to get the plot to the point where we could lay the foundations and start building. 

[Solutions]

Completely agree, the survey costs that i usually incur are higher then standard but on the up side they are way cheaper then having surprises later on.

 

Couple of years ago i refused to start the works and i asked a client to spend £6700 on surveys. The main contractor and the architect went ballistic on me and threatened to terminate the contract ... 

They both calmed down after the ground penetrating radar showed that a main electricity supply was 2,2 meters away from where it should have been according to plans, and just 40- 60cm from where i was supposed to dig and get the level concrete in

Not to mention a pocket of rubbish infill, on the right side that forced us to go deeper with the foundations.

I have to admit, i could not help myself and i have rubbed it in their face

 

[Solutions]

Let me guess, probably 50% of the 50k spent, went to disposal and landfill tax ... 

[ProDave]

16 minutes ago, Solutions said:

Completely agree, the survey costs that i usually incur are higher then standard but on the up side they are way cheaper then having surprises later on.

 

Couple of years ago i refused to start the works and i asked a client to spend £6700 on surveys. The main contractor and the architect went ballistic on me and threatened to terminate the contract ... 

They both calmed down after the ground penetrating radar showed that a main electricity supply was 2,2 meters away from where it should have been according to plans, and just 40- 60cm from where i was supposed to dig and get the level concrete in

Not to mention a pocket of rubbish infill, on the right side that forced us to go deeper with the foundations.

I have to admit, i could not help myself and i have rubbed it in their face

 

But those additional works (the cable and poor infill) would probably not have added £6,700 to the cost though?

 

When I built the previous house, it was on a fixed price, but with conditions. One was if the ground conditions were poor and required deeper foundations, there was an agreed additional cost for each additional course of underbuilding required. A simple and elegant solution to an unknown.

[Solutions]

ProDave, 

 

For the infill, i agree it is an elegant solution to pay by cubic meter or linear meter of run, but not when the client wants a  price set in stone.

 

For the cable surprise, think of it from this perspective ... 

If you discover a wire where it should not be, you call the DNO and they move it where it should be.  In this case it delayed the start by 4 weeks but it was done at the DNO expense because it was thier fault.

 

If you dig and and you spot it before you hit it, you will have to stop the site to investigate and do a site survey ... If you consider even 3 days delay x £1500/day =£4500 plus a new survey ... 

 

If you dig and you hit it, you support the costs of the repairs because you did not take the precautions. 

Not to say that hitting a HV cable usually ends up with HSE on your back in the best scenario (or God forbid, with someone not getting home from work)

 

 

 

 

 

[Stones]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

But those additional works (the cable and poor infill) would probably not have added £6,700 to the cost though?

 

When I built the previous house, it was on a fixed price, but with conditions. One was if the ground conditions were poor and required deeper foundations, there was an agreed additional cost for each additional course of underbuilding required. A simple and elegant solution to an unknown.

 

That's the way I've always had our builds priced.  As you say, a simple and elegant solution.