Protect VC Foil Ultra vs Pro Clima Intello Plus

[Thorfun]

I've recently purchased some Protect VC Foil Ultra as my AVCL but am having a bit of a wobble and wondering if I should've gone for the Pro Clima Intello Plus instead! Anyone been through the same dilemma and would care to share their experiences and decision making process?

 

Generally in life the more you pay for something the better it is (not always the way though) so my latest wobble is should I have gone for the really expensive stuff. I'm sure the Protect membrane is great but it seems that a lot of people are using the Intello Plus now so there must be a reason for it.

[ProDave]

I used the intello for the complicated bits like the Tony Trays, where it's chief benefit seemed to be the woven mesh embeded in it made it very tough indeed, but it was expensive, so for the "simple" stuff just plain walls and roof, I used the very much cheaper Protect Barriair.

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, ProDave said:

I used the intello for the complicated bits like the Tony Trays, where it's chief benefit seemed to be the woven mesh embeded in it made it very tough indeed, but it was expensive, so for the "simple" stuff just plain walls and roof, I used the very much cheaper Protect Barriair.

the timber frame company used the Protect Floor cassette membrane for our Tony Trays (https://glidevaleprotect.com/product/protect-fcm-750-vapour-open-air-barrier/). I've read your posts and blogs about your Barriair installation and it looks great and I've learnt a lot from that reading. that was a while ago now though so I think a revisit on that blog is required to refresh the old grey matter.

 

I was thinking the reflective membrane might yield slightly better U-values than the Intello Plus but wonder/question the benefit of the variable vapour permeability of the Intello Plus. From my understanding it allows moisture back in to the building in the summer (I might be talking rubbish as usual here btw) but I don't see the benefit of that especially as our MVHR system has an enthalpy exchanger so will increase the humidity in the house if required.

[SuperJohnG]

I bought proclima intello, just took delivery of 8 rolls and 50 rolls of Vana. 

 

Seemed hard to compare them, but I sold it to myself in the end that intello seemed better as it was more expensive,.plenty had used on here and that it let's moisture out the kit. I think it'll be very similar to one another but I have a SIPS kit I don't want any trapped moisture. 

 

I didnt go with the plus stuff as it is required if you need to support insulation fill only. I have osb internals so no support required. 

 

The way I looked at it was its 1500 quid in a 400k build and a key part. I've done that loads now and I'm sure the budget is stuffed because of that approach but who cares.

 

For my Tony tray is used cheap green plastic that I got from b and q last minute as I'd never heard of a Tony tray until the night before the joists were going in and it was a mad rush. It's been ripped and damaged in places which I repaired. But doing it again for what I know now I'd defo choose something much better there like intello plus.

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, SuperJohnG said:

I bought proclima intello, just took delivery of 8 rolls and 50 rolls of Vana. 

 

Seemed hard to compare them, but I sold it to myself in the end that intello seemed better as it was more expensive,.plenty had used on here and that it let's moisture out the kit. I think it'll be very similar to one another but I have a SIPS kit I don't want any trapped moisture. 

 

I didnt go with the plus stuff as it is required if you need to support insulation fill only. I have osb internals so no support required. 

 

The way I looked at it was its 1500 quid in a 400k build and a key part. I've done that loads now and I'm sure the budget is stuffed because of that approach but who cares.

 

For my Tony tray is used cheap green plastic that I got from b and q last minute as I'd never heard of a Tony tray until the night before the joists were going in and it was a mad rush. It's been ripped and damaged in places which I repaired. But doing it again for what I know now I'd defo choose something much better there like intello plus.

I agree about happy to spend the money, I mean, the VC Foil Ultra isn't cheap either!

 

the techno-blurb on the ProClima website certainly sells the product well in allowing moisture in to the house in the summer to aid in the drying of the structure but how much of that is really required in a normal house? how much is marketing BS? these are the questions I just don't know the answer to.

 

quotes like this from the ProClima website worry me as we have 2 green roofs:

 

"The variability of the diffusion resistance of the high-performance INTELLO systems guarantees impressive protection against structural damage, even on demanding structures that are impermeable to diffusion to the outside such as steep roofs with sheet metal covering, roof linings with asphalt roof membranes, flat roofs and green roofs. "

 

so are my green roofs going to rot and collapse if I use the Protect membrane and not the Intello? I doubt it but the evil marketing departments seem to love to tell you that bad stuff is going to happen if you don't buy and use their products!

[Thorfun]

so, I've run the numbers and using the reflective membrane it looks like my U-value will go from 0.129W/m2K to 0.125W/m2K. so even though it does make a difference I'm wondering if that U-value reduction is as important as the benefit the Intello gives with the variable vapour permeability?

[Thorfun]

ahhhh...buggrit. I've just ordered the Intello Plus from Latzel and will send the Protect VC back. I'm 99.999% sure I've done the right thing! And as @SuperJohnG said it's a small percentage of the overall build cost and not much uplift over the Protect membrane when ordered from Germany.

 

so no more sleepless nights for me on this subject I hope! ?

 

[SuperJohnG]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

so no more sleepless nights for me on this subject I hope! ?

Good job. Feels good doesn't it! 

[Thorfun]

35 minutes ago, SuperJohnG said:

Good job. Feels good doesn't it! 

yep, although there are many other subjects that can/will cause sleepless nights.

 

just put my tools down for the next 2 days. will be back on it again Monday!

[eandg]

Is there any particular reason why this Gerband membrane (https://passivehousesystems.co.uk/product/gerband-sd-control-airtight-membrane/) is inferior to Intello Plus or should for some reason be avoided? It's £97 compared to c.£230 for the same size from UK suppliers. 

[Thorfun]

7 hours ago, eandg said:

Is there any particular reason why this Gerband membrane (https://passivehousesystems.co.uk/product/gerband-sd-control-airtight-membrane/) is inferior to Intello Plus or should for some reason be avoided? It's £97 compared to c.£230 for the same size from UK suppliers. 

honestly don't know. I did look at that membrane and I know others on here have used Gerband tapes and membranes. in the end I decided that, for the small uplift and tiny percentage of the total build cost, I didn't want to risk it and bought the Intello Plus membrane. my decision was not based on anything but gut feeling though.

[JohnMo]

I used Passive house systems Hi-Thermia Reflective Membrane.

 

Has a mesh woven in doesn't tear, easy to work with

[Olf]

Intello has got variable diffusion resistance, though if you want to benefit from that you can still go for Gerband SD Vario  at £140 a roll. 

It depends what building construction are you using it for and what do you want to achieve. For my refurb + extension I've used Protect Barriar and PHS Apollo (own branded Gerband I believe), which is still a massive progress in comparison to nothing applied originally  . For optimal benefit and if your budget allows, or if you're bound by law (like Germans stipulating use of variable diffusion resistance membranes in all new buildings) choose accordingly.

The membranes I used are both woven, not stretchy, easy to work with. I like Gerband products (used tape and sealant too) in use, though can't say the same about PHS store  - though in the UK there is no much choice so you get (service) you pay for.

 

Also 'no need for the plus unless you are using it to hold insulation in place like blown cellulose or similar or need it to be stronger' (from https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/28471-would-you-tape-it/#elControls_427995_menu)

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Olf
added quote to other thread

[Kelvin]

I have this quandary too. I already have the Protect VC Foil Ultra as it comes as part of the timber kit albeit they don’t fit it. 
 

Reading the Intello Pro Clima documentation it says that for best performance it should be fitted over the insulation and not directly onto board and in every picture that’s what they show. Our kit is a closed panel system and the wall build up has the air tight barrier on top of the OSB this is then battened to create a service void then insulated plaster board. This is going to be a similar build up on a SIP construction  unless there’s another layer of insulation on the inside.
 

Therefore is there much benefit of using it in my build up if it’s not optimal and have any of you used it in this way? 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Kelvin