Foul Treatment Plant advice - choosing the right one!

[Dale Hesketh]

Hi everyone, 

 

This is my first post on this forum, so please bear with me...

 

I have read through a lot of the previous posts regarding this topic and found mixed responses. Prior to researching, the Klargester Biodisc was what had been proposed to me, although it appears to a reputable system,  the idea of all the potential issues that could occur with the belt drives, gears, bearings and moving parts etc just doesn't seem a sensible suggestion. I have read lots of negative posts regarding Biodisc, but has anybody had any positive feedback from personal experience regarding the Klargester?

 

The other systems that seem to popular with people on here such as the WPL Diamond, Condor, Vortex etc seem to make much more logical sense from a maintenance & reliability perspective, however my concern is the level of noise omitted the air blower/compressor in these types of system. 

 

The noise omission from the FTP will be one of the most important factors i need to consider when selecting a plant, as the rural site is extremely quiet and don't wish to affect that if possible. I'ne read how the compressor/blower have been remotely cited in  sound proofed enclosures etc, this is obviously an option i could consider, but wanted to avoid building a structure which wouldn't quite fit with the landscaping design intended for that area. Building a IP rated enclosure within an underground housing/chamber sounds appealing but maintaining the air flow for the blower may be the issue with citing below ground.

 

Can anybody offer any advise on the above? 

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Dale

[ProDave]

Happy user of the Conder plant here.  I avoided the likes of the biodisk as I have seen first hand one with a jammed gearbox, and I firmly declined the job of trying to fix it for the reason you have mentioned.

 

There is in some designs of the air blower plants a lack of detail in the designs and some have found the blower is noisy as it has in effect been sat on the skin of a drum and a few have done modifications to improve it.  I believe the Graff plants deliberately mount the blower remote from the tank and a small in ground brick chamber would be a good place to mount the blower so it could not be heard.

[joe90]

I installed a Vortex and can recommend it, yes it was noisy initially as the pump was mounted on the lid which acted like a drum, I moved it into the ground next to the unit and lined it with acoustic foam, hardly noticeable when next to it and silent a few meters away.

[Dale Hesketh]

Hi ProDave, 

 

Thank you for you reply. 

 

Can i ask, is the blower for the Conder within the tank or remote? Can you hear it from a distance away?

[Dale Hesketh]

Hi Joe90

 

Thanks also for your reply. Can i ask with you mounting the air blower in the ground, how do you maintain the air flow & water tightness in the enclosure.

 

Thanks

[saveasteading]

Have only installed 3 from memory, and had no call-backs so presumably all ok. My inclination is to choose the simplest design, so air blower rather than rotating wheel.

Having the blower in an adjacent chamber (not in the sludge make sense).

Of course the tank works to some extent without the help of rotation or bubbles.

I currently favour Marsh Industries, if you want to add them to your list. Very helpful tech advice too.

 

The blower motor can be heard from very adjacent, but not from a couple of metres away.

 

When you have an air pump in a fish tank it is the disturbance at the surface that allows oxygen to enter the water, (and the line of bubbles is for show)...is that the same principle for the sewage tank, or is it more simply, moving the sludge around?

[joe90]

9 hours ago, Dale Hesketh said:

Hi Joe90

 

Thanks also for your reply. Can i ask with you mounting the air blower in the ground, how do you maintain the air flow & water tightness in the enclosure.

 

Thanks

The hole I dug was above the outlet pipe which was a rumble drain (perforated pipe buried in drainage stone) so any ground water can drain away into that. I used some black waste pipe (40mm) and put one at each end with four bends to let air flow into and out but letting no rain in. When I had it serviced the chap said it was very adequate.

[dpmiller]

I have a Solido Smart, it has the air pump inside a sealed housing inside the neck of the tank (under a double-skinned lid) A hose is fed in from a remotely-mounted inlet, which in our case is beside a hedge and unnoticeable. It's an SBR system so the pump doesn't run all the time anyway, but the only time any sound is noticeable is during the pumpout phase and it's more of a splashing/bubbling sound. Highly recommended.

[ProDave]

10 hours ago, Dale Hesketh said:

Hi ProDave, 

 

Thank you for you reply. 

 

Can i ask, is the blower for the Conder within the tank or remote? Can you hear it from a distance away?

Yes you can hear the blower a few metres away but it is not very loud.  In the Conder the pump sits in it's own chamber in the middle of the tank. In the picture below it's under the big green lid, and the mushroom vent on top is what allows it to breathe.  In the case of the Conder it is emptied by unscrewing the smaller cap off to the right in this picture.

 

I believe the BioPure tank while looking very similar to the Conder, requires you to lift the box containing the pump put to empty it.

 

[jamieled]

10 hours ago, saveasteading said:

When you have an air pump in a fish tank it is the disturbance at the surface that allows oxygen to enter the water, (and the line of bubbles is for show)...is that the same principle for the sewage tank, or is it more simply, moving the sludge around?

 

I think it depends on the tank - not all package treatment plants are equal. For example, the vortex that @joe90 mentions above spurs the air from the blower off into three areas - one to breakup the incoming waste, one to aerate the broken down waste (where the main treatment occurs) and one for a vacuum to recycle the sludge back into the incoming waste (the vortex is a bit unique in this case as it is one of the few plants that can be adjusted for low occupancy).

 

What should be common to all EN certified plants is that they aerate the waste, so digestion is aerobic, rather than anerobic as for a septic tank. Whether they then move the sludge about using air is a bit dependent on the plant I think.

[joe90]

17 minutes ago, jamieled said:

the vortex is a bit unique in this case as it is one of the few plants that can be adjusted for low occupancy

Which is one of the many reasons I chose it, we had to instal a 6 person unit (three bedrooms) but in reality there are only two of us normally .

[Dale Hesketh]

On 18/12/2021 at 08:47, dpmiller said:

I have a Solido Smart, it has the air pump inside a sealed housing inside the neck of the tank (under a double-skinned lid) A hose is fed in from a remotely-mounted inlet, which in our case is beside a hedge and unnoticeable. It's an SBR system so the pump doesn't run all the time anyway, but the only time any sound is noticeable is during the pumpout phase and it's more of a splashing/bubbling sound. Highly recommended.

Thanks for your reply dpmiller, i'll have a look at SBR's products. 

[dpmiller]

SBR in this case isn't a brand, it stands for "Small Batch Reactor".

[Onoff]

On 18/12/2021 at 10:40, joe90 said:

Which is one of the many reasons I chose it, we had to instal a 6 person unit (three bedrooms) but in reality there are only two of us normally .

 

Do you have trouble keeping it "fed"?

[Dale Hesketh]

?‍♂️ see what happens when QS's start to 'try' and talk technical....

 

Apologies for the oversight and thanks for the help! 

[saveasteading]

5 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Do you have trouble keeping it "fed"?

 

I think it simply keeps bubbling away without problems. Might be different if not used at all for a prolonged period.

On the other extreme, an overused tank will spill nasty stuff out to soon, so is much worse.

 

The mix of contents also makes a big difference as the tanks are designed for a normal balance of urine, faeces and waste water. This shouldn't ever be an issue in a house, unless lots of water is sent there for obscure reasons (or connecting a rainwater pipe).

 

It does matter for other types of buildings where use is different....eg a sports hall / gym has more urine and water, which doesn't favour the bugs, so it needs monitoring.

Airports have the opposite issue apparently.

 

 

[joe90]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

Do you have trouble keeping it "fed"?

No because when commissioned it was “turned down “ to match its input!

[Roger440]

On 18/12/2021 at 10:40, joe90 said:

Which is one of the many reasons I chose it, we had to instal a 6 person unit (three bedrooms) but in reality there are only two of us normally .

 

Likewise here. Shared septic with 2 x 4 bed houses. So design must cater for 12 people. There are only total of 4, and for several months a year, 2.

 

The vortex, im my experience, has a couple of issues. The settled sludge return becomes blocked. This has happened numerous times. (maybe not "fed" enough?)

 

If you "speed it up", to avoid blocking, the output effluent quality drops (not as clear). Set it such the the quality is good, it WILL block.

 

The other is noise. Yes, the pump makes noise, but that can be fixed by moving it elsewhere. I mean the noise INSIDE the tank, ie the incoming side aeration and the floating sludge return (when its operating).

 

Despite sound deadening on the lid, having it under a bit of decking, on a still summers evening you can hear the gurgling noises quite clearly. I then added a "box" over the entry point where the primary aeration happens which did help a bit.

 

I was rather contrained by where to put it. Had i known how noisy it was, id have moved it much farther away from the house. That would have meant a pump to pump it back up to the tank, but knowing what i know now, thats what id do despite the additional complications.

[joe90]

16 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

The settled sludge return becomes blocked.

This only happened to me when a rat got in and drowned and got stuck in a pipe. Other than that no problems in two years of operation.

 

17 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

The other is noise.

Yes, I moved my pump into the ground with sound insulation and is barely audible now.

[Gus Potter]

Speced this tank on a new build job about 2 years ago. No adverse reports so far.

 

  https://www.wte-ltd.co.uk/pureflo_sewage_plant.html

 

It's a bio digester, no underground moving parts. Key drivers were; 

 

1/  4 bed house with substancial principle living space but Client is abroad for a number of months only a cleaner in from time to time.

2/ When Client is back only two of them living in the house but from time to time have full occupancy with guests, two dishwashers running etc.

3/ That it has a CE approval which ties in with the regs and design codes in Scotland.

 

In summary was looking for a tank that would work based on variable flows and loads. Much like a holiday home.

 

In reality how they perform is based on how you look after them. Some folk that take a holiday let take their own bleach and chuck it down the bog! some put other items that don't bode well for anything "sewage".

 

In an ideal world for the self builder who is using the house on an irregular basis  / or with variable flows and nutrient loads then some extra control over the air blower would be helpful. Maybe like the app you have on your phone for controlling the heating. A few days before you go away you turn down the blower so that you keep plenty live culture ticking over with the odd boost to clear the pipes. Then a couple of days before you come home you crank it up a bit so its all ready to receive your homecoming gifts.

 

Hopefully someone will make this technology readily available.