Neighbour 'pressuring' me to not object to application

[JKami84]

We are terraced houses in Hertsmere (only about 5m wide houses). and I got a notification from council stating they want a 6m single story extension - basically taking up their entire garden.

 

I responded immediately stating I'd like more information because i'm otherwise concerned, but would also be happy if all was within requirements and guidelines. 

 

I next found out their planning was rejected.

 

My neighbour made contact to help with another issue in my house caused by their work and in my response I said thank you and i heard their permission was rejected which was a shame and "if theres anything i can do to support let me know"

I was then contacted by his architect...

During this phone call I felt uneasy that his architect kept insisting the plan was fine and I shouldn't have a problem with it. At this stage I did resist a little and say "why don't you apply in a way the council approves it". 

 

I called council to learn that they did a neighbour consulatation scheme and although my email was a bit woolly (I didn't feel I was really objecting), it was enough for council to reject it. 

I also found out that text msg I sent offering support was sent on to the council after rejection. I felt a bit betrayed. 

 

They have applied again in the same way... and been contacted by the architect to "support" because its "within permitted development". 

 

Questions - 

1. Can they not apply "normally", where councils make decisions and I'm not under pressure. I have no expertise in the impact of this. 

2. Are they pressuring me or coming to me because they know the council wouldn't otherwise approve their plan because its too extreme? The house depth currently is probably not even 6m. 

3. Is the way they are treating me unfair?

 

I feel like responding to council in same way I did last time.

[bassanclan]

They are trying to apply for "prior approval" planning which is cheaper. Just say a 3m extension would be more suitable for a property of that size and garden (which is the limit of permitted development).

[epsilonGreedy]

2 hours ago, JKami84 said:

I also found out that text msg I sent offering support was sent on to the council after rejection. I felt a bit betrayed. 

 

 

Quite frankly your account reads to me as though your own duplicitous behaviour is coming back to haunt you.

 

You initially volunteered support to your neighbour without any prompt and then continued to engage in a supportive dialogue with the neighbour and his architect contrary to your own true feelings and I think your interactions with the Council.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by epsilonGreedy

[ToughButterCup]

3 hours ago, JKami84 said:

...

1. Can they not apply "normally", where councils make decisions and I'm not under pressure. I have no expertise in the impact of this. 

2. Are they pressuring me or coming to me because they know the council wouldn't otherwise approve their plan because its too extreme? ...

3. Is the way they are treating me unfair?

...

 

1. Yes.  Although the word 'normal' is, in this context a little misplaced

2. We cannot, at this remove, guess motive.

3. No.

 

How you react to other people is unique.  One person's pressure can be anothers gentle joke. As in the post immediately above, one man's duplicity is anothers forgetfulness.

 

The Internet is full of examples of people objecting to planning applications. Read some.

Make your own mind up about the application and : say what you think based on evidence, not feeling.

[Dave Jones]

your objections unless on planning grounds would't matter a jot anyway.

 

 

[MJNewton]

5 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

your objections unless on planning grounds would't matter a jot anyway.

 

And likewise with neighbour support. 

[Temp]

Most terrace houses are alowed to extend back 3m under Permitted Development eg no planning permission required.

They can also extend back 6m without planning permission if they follow the Permitted Development Prior Approval Process which involves consulting you.

They can extend all the way to the coast if they apply for full Planning Permission and the planners approve it. This process also involves consulting you.

 

You do not have to respond to the consultation but if you don't they will take it that you aren't objecting and they will be allowed to build to 6m.

 

I'm afraid you will have to decide what you can live with. I recommend doing that and telling them. You can say I can live with 5m? 4m? meters but any bigger and Im afraid I will object because I think it will be too overbearing, sorry but that's how you feel.

 

 In that case they will have to decide between...

 

Scaling it back to what you have said you can live with or.

Submitting a planning application for what they really want. Bear in mind that might be 7 or 8m not 6m.

 

You also have rights under the rules of trespass (nothing must overhang the boundary not even gutters, so the wall must normally be built 6" to 1ft on their side to allow for that) and possibly the Party Wall Act. 

 

 

[JKami84]

Hi all, many thanks for your responses. They have helped me massively. 

 

I have learned I also need to be more transparent about how I feel and when talking / responding that I need to not talk about any emotions, but the detail. 

 

My position is this - I have concerns about the plan. I also cannot allow this plan to pass by not being properly scrutinised by those with expertise and authority - therefore I have to voice my concerns. If the plan was submitted in a way the council approved it, then I would respect the decisions. 

 

I am also going to be honest with the neighbour and the architect about this position I am taking and hope they understand i'm not trying to be a constant thawn in there side but I could work with them in the future on revised plans. However the pressure on me to be the sole decider to a decision that can have a lasting impact isn't something I can do, so I had to voice my concerns honestly. 

[Temp]

You should also consider what implication their plans would have on any extension you might want to build. 

[AliG]

11 hours ago, JKami84 said:

My position is this - I have concerns about the plan. I also cannot allow this plan to pass by not being properly scrutinised by those with expertise and authority - therefore I have to voice my concerns. If the plan was submitted in a way the council approved it, then I would respect the decisions. 

 

If you read the prior approval guidance this is what has happened.

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/17/extensions/2

 

"If you wish to build an extension of this size, you must apply to the local authority, who will then consult the adjoining neighbours to advise them of your proposals.

If your neighbours raise any concerns or objections, the local authority will be required to determine if the proposal’s impact on the amenity of all adjoining properties is acceptable and, based on this, whether it can go ahead."

 

So they consulted you, you had concerns and they decided it was not acceptable. It may be that the reality of the way the scheme works is that if a neighbour is concerned they just reject it.

 

How long is their garden? If as you say it covers most of it then it would probably not be permitted development as it should not cover more than 50% of the total garden area of the house (front and back). It may be that the size of the front garden means that they are within this rule.

 

TBH you give the planning people too much credit. Due to the new rules, if they are OK with it they will approve it and if you are not they won't. Personally from what you have said re the size of it versus the original house I would object. I would not want an extension down one whole side of my garden right up on the boundary. I assume that it is taller than any fence/wall currently there.

 

Did the neighbours on the other side not object?

[JKami84]

@AliG -thanks for your response. 

 

I am not sure other neighbours have objected. 

 

Well - I've just got a text from the architect saying "council should have been in touch..... .... can we sugest you say "No comments".? Thanks".

 

OMG. The cheek man. But I get it - he is being pushy. I am not going to take it to heart. I did respond saying "why do you suggest I say "No Comments", I find it upsetting you are telling me what to say". However, as with other messages on this thread - I AM GOING TO BE HONEST WITH HIM and tell him I have to be honest with council about my concerns. Its right of me to do that. 

 

Also, yes they have used a neighbour scheme rather than what I consider a 'normal' planning permission. Any objection from neighbour and its not taken further. I am encouraging them to apply the more traditional way where I can share comments but it is still reviewed by a planning officer. 

 

The fact they do not want to go down that route, raises the alarm bells that they would not get this through under a normal planning permission. That then leads me to say to them "look, I have to be honest then... there is too much of a burden on me to make a decision that will have a lasting impact on more than just myself". 

 

Hopefully they understand. 

[SteamyTea]

What happens if you say nothing. Does it then have to go through normal planning?

[AliG]

According to the rules if you say nothing they don't look at it and it just gets approved as long as it meets the criteria.

 

This is why the architect wants a "no comment" response. Any kind of question could have the planners looking at it.

[JKami84]

@AliG - exactly. and all I want is planners to look at it. I don't want me (an IT guy who has expertise in Servers and Networks and not construction and building planning) to be the 'gatekeeper' of such a decision. 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

37 minutes ago, JKami84 said:

an IT guy who has expertise in Servers and Networks and not construction and building planning

Almost the same as planners. 9not difference is they can't understand the IT 

[epsilonGreedy]

1 hour ago, JKami84 said:

@AliG - exactly. and all I want is planners to look at it. I don't want me (an IT guy who has expertise in Servers and Networks and not construction and building planning) to be the 'gatekeeper' of such a decision. 

 

 

You are seeing moral complexity and drama where none needs to exist.

 

Your neighbour and his architect have formulated a plan that enhances his lifestyle and/or the value of his house. Most people and hopefully the planners would consider the extension over development since it fills 90% of the back garden as I recall.

 

If built the extension would devalue the enjoyment you get from your house and would undermine the value of your house a bit. So you object and the application needs to be resubmitted for proper review.

 

Unfortunately your earlier mixed signals have given them hope you will acquiesce. Stop expending brain cycles worrying about how the neighbour and the architect perceive your actions, they have hatched an unreasonable plan. Don't get involved in an emotional txt exchange with the architect because it gives them hope you can be manipulated.

Edited December 14, 2021 by epsilonGreedy

[AliG]

I agree with @epsilonGreedy

 

The planers don't care about you. They might not care enough about this plan to look at it properly if you don't actually object to it. They are supposed to look at it if you raise questions, but I suspect there is a risk that they simply approve it if you don't object.

 

This could have a negative impact on you. If you object to it, it will be refused. You need to look after yourself and not worry about them. You don't need to be a professional planner to know this is bad for you. You just don't want to feel guilty about it. Your neighbour and their architects are quite happy to ***** you over to get their extension. You have to keep this in mind when feeling guilty about it.