Hi - Co Down New Build

[kingostar]

Hi everyone. I have been lurking on the site for the past few weeks and have decided to introduce myself as we have started to get the ball rolling on our self build.

 

We are in a lucky position to have been gifted a site and one of my best friends is an architect, who visited the site with us yesterday. We are hoping to get a PP application submitted in mid 2022.

 

Our site has a wee old stone house on it with an obvious fire/chimney and windows - so we are confident of obtaining PP on the basis of replacement dwelling.

 

I have scarred the Internet and asked friends in the trade for approximate prices per sqmt and have heard anything from £1,000 - £3,000sqm. That is obviously a massive difference and depending of the specification. 

 

We hope to build a very air tight house with ultra efficient u-values and MVHR and oil boiler. I did a detailed payback analysis for PV, battery and ASHP and it just does not make sense to go this route - payback came out circa 33 years.

 

In terms of Superstructure build I am hoping to go ICF - is there a market for ICF construction in NI? Concrete first floor is also a desirable.

 

As this is very early doors I believe we can afford a budget of £300k  for a house size circa 230m2. In people's humble opinion is this achievable or am I living in La La land?

 

Attached are a couple of photos from the site.

 

Thank you - looking forward to contributing in the future ? 

[tonyshouse]

Yea! But spend your time wisely, decide on what u-value you want and your airtightness target. Design from there.

 

it is always possible to keep costs down and to reduce costs, how fixed on ICF are you? 

[nod]

Welcome 

 

We also did a PV evaluation on our first build and agree with you Financially it doesn’t make any sense I think ours came out as a saving of £2-300 per year Something like 25 years for it to pay for itself I would imagine it would all need to replaced by then 

We decided to spend the money save on extra insulation 

We also think PV panels look horrible ?

 

Budget 
A few things will dictate this 

How much you will do yourself 

Design Box or elaborate Or something in between 

Bad ground 

Services nearby 

and the final finish 

Method of build 

Timber Frame Far more convenient than traditional 

Far more expensive 

 

We built 282m2 over two floors with a d double garage 

and finished to a high spec 

815m2 

BUT That was three years ago 

Prices have jumped up 

While we don’t expect to be at 815m2 this time 

We had very deep foundation and lots of trees 

We have good ground and few tree 

So we will pull back 30k from previous 

We expect to keep the final cost under 1500m2 

 

350 m2 over two floors Triple two story garage and workshop 

Traditional build 

[kingostar]

19 minutes ago, tonyshouse said:

Yea! But spend your time wisely, decide on what u-value you want and your airtightness target. Design from there.

 

it is always possible to keep costs down and to reduce costs, how fixed on ICF are you? 

 

I am not completely fixed on it - I mean if there is only one contractor who has experience and willing but putting the arm in them I'd be happy to explore other options. At the same time I don't want a builder doing it for the first time at a more realistic price and be his guinea pig.

[kingostar]

@nod is that £815 per sqmt? I'm under no illustration that it will be that cheap. Hoping for it to come in at around £1300. Of course all speculative. We don't envisage the build starting until summer 23 or maybe later...so fingers crossed the materials market will have settled somewhat by then.

 

Utilities should be okay - houses near by with mains water connection from the main road. Electricity is close by as well....these could obviously pose significant risk as well. 

 

If I was to rank my construction methods it would be 1) ICF 2) Masonry block 3) Timber Frame 

[nod]

19 minutes ago, kingostar said:

@nod is that £815 per sqmt? I'm under no illustration that it will be that cheap. Hoping for it to come in at around £1300. Of course all speculative. We don't envisage the build starting until summer 23 or maybe later...so fingers crossed the materials market will have settled somewhat by then.

 

Utilities should be okay - houses near by with mains water connection from the main road. Electricity is close by as well....these could obviously pose significant risk as well. 

 

If I was to rank my construction methods it would be 1) ICF 2) Masonry block 3) Timber Frame 

Yes it was 815m2

I published a spreadsheet on here So probably be able to find in the Archives 

We could have easily reduced that total If we had cut back on the German kitchen and bathrooms and few other things 

 

Try not to spend to much on design 

It’s you who will be living in it 

Work out what you want on paper before visiting an Architect and they will put it into a workable design 

Try and avoid buying from showrooms 

You will find the same brands online at a fraction of the cost 

 

 

[dpmiller]

hello there... is that Annalong direction?

[Conor]

35 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

hello there... is that Annalong direction?

 

 

Fairly sure it's halfway between Newcastle and Glasdrumman. Know that road too well!

 

 

Welcome. Tbh, you'll not do it for less than a grand a m² these days. We're building with amvic ICF. Two story plus basement , 300m² is coming in at £1300/m². Wish it was closer to my original budget of £850!!! I think your budget of £300k for £220m² is spot on. Assuming you're not going crazy on kitchens and bathrooms.

 

There are three or four ICF contractors in NI. Johnny ballantine, Fox Bros, Thermal shell construction (Gordon Cowan) and Passive Structures  (Patrick McKenna). There may be more but that's who I know.

 

Drop the oil boiler and get an ashp. We're not nearly finished ours yet and have a single 2kW fan heater keeping the house at 14-15c at the minute for drying out. A modern air tight ICF house takes nothing to heat. (Modeled peak heat load for the house is 3.5kW so we're not far off hitting that)

 

I've done a PV install and the payback is looking like 9 years. But with electric prices only going one direction, it's only going to be less. Also, it's a small investment (5k) amongst a much bigger budget and you'll hardly notice the mortgage payments.... 

[dpmiller]

@Conor  a bit past Bloody Bridge, well before the Quarter Road.

 

(a mate has a cottage up on Head Road...)

[Iceverge]

Welcome. 

 

Smashing site..very nice. 

 

Being so close to the sea windtightness and  airtightness will make or break your house in terms of comfort and efficiency. U values less so as it's unlikely to ever get too cold. 

 

For that price you'll need to be building a simple shape and simple roof. No reason it needs to be unattractive or boring. 

 

@Donegalsd over on the west coast has a good example.

 

I did the same sums about the PV and heat pump.  I settled on A2A (not installed yet) and immersion and solar PV (not installed yet either). 

 

Maybe in hindsight I'd have done UFH heating and a Willis heater with option for a DIY ASHP later.   Ask me next year when I'm finished monitoring the usage in our first year.  What I will say is PHPP appears to be very accurate in estimating actually usage.

I never considered oil. I suspect it'll attract more taxes. 

 

We paid the builder €1160/m2 Inc vat in the south of ireland but by the time we had paid everything else in march this year it was €1560/m2. It might have been another €20k  if  I hadn't done a fair bit. 

 

Completely rectangular passive house. Strip foundations. 250mm cavity with EPS beads. Wet plaster inside and out. Trussed cold roof. White pvc windows (3g). MVHR. Fiber cement slates. No stove. Concrete first floor (wouldn't bother again). No central heating. 

 

I would buy a 40ft container and some shop shelving next time and knock 30m2 off the house next time. So much of the building is full of stuff that would be ok dry stored outside in a nicely disguised container shed at €200/m2. 

Good luck

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CalvinHobbes]

Hey @Kingostar, your site looks stunning. Planning here can take a while. I suspect we may be running on the same time frame for our builds.

@Iceverge you said you wouldn't do a cement floor again, why is that?

 

[Iceverge]

It's probably personal but concrete is cold and hard feeling. Timber is more sympathetic. 

 

Drilling for services was a PITA. 

 

Expense of MF ceiling although this was very quick and very level. 

 

Thick floor. Would have preferred more ceiling height instead or a less steep stairs. 

 

Awkward to get airtight. 

 

Mind you it's totally killer silent with carpets on top. ( Pros and cons as can't hear the small kids)

 

Probably not too much dearer overall with the price of timber now. 

 

You can stand block walls as you wish upstairs. Ours had 75mm concrete with mesh poured on the 150mm slabs so it's super strong.

 

 

 

 

 

[kingostar]

Hi All,

 

Nearly a year down the road and not much has moved forward as of yet as Himalayan Knotweed has been found on the site. We have an ecologist coming out in the next week or so to complete a survey / management plan. Our hope is to keep the knotweed out side the boundary of the plot and then if necessary deal with it over the years as a cheaper option. Hopefully if this is doable then we hope to proceed with our architect on drawing up plans. 

 

I sat down with the architect and he asked me to do a list of rooms we would want in the dwelling and if I wanted put approx. sizes for each of these. I work as an BS Engineer so this wasn't much of a task.

 

One thing - I was down on site (job related) and speaking to a contractor to does residential / light commercial - he said to me at the moment for a self build rough figures are £180 per sqft on a ground floor and £90 per sqft on additional floors. To me this sounds somewhat a bit much - but certainly not unrealistic to achieve. Would anyone have any comments on that - or is the contractor feeding me lies. I have attached my high level list and approx costs.

 

Cheers 

 

[Andehh]

£180/sqft sounds pretty spot on to me for an average spec, we had £186sqft quoted this time last year for our Bungalow, for an average spec. We did have a 'keen' builder due to a large cancellation he was recovering from.

 

No fees included (add 10%...) but that is for full turnkey project management and a small demolition & clearance. Middle of England.

 

A lot of people on this forum do a lot of work themselves, so take it with a pinch of salt when people quote their own prices. 

 

I would assume £2000/sqm for a straight forwards two story place, and any saving from that would be impressive. That is for an average spec, so high end windows, steels, MVHR etc will add to this.

 

Sorry to hear about the Knotweed, self build is always a long game & one that does require more resilience & patience then you are told....

Edited September 14, 2022 by Andehh

[Conor]

That's about right, we built for £1200/m2 in 2021/2022 but that was before prices really went up. Doubt you could do less than £1500m2 overall, unless you're building to a min spec. Allow a good £300k unless you plan on getting your hands dirty and / or managing it yourself. And you need to allow for design and consultancy fees (10%)

[kingostar]

2 hours ago, Andehh said:

£180/sqft sounds pretty spot on to me for an average spec, we had £186sqft quoted this time last year for our Bungalow, for an average spec. We did have a 'keen' builder due to a large cancellation he was recovering from.

 

No fees included (add 10%...) but that is for full turnkey project management and a small demolition & clearance. Middle of England.

 

A lot of people on this forum do a lot of work themselves, so take it with a pinch of salt when people quote their own prices. 

 

I would assume £2000/sqm for a straight forwards two story place, and any saving from that would be impressive. That is for an average spec, so high end windows, steels, MVHR etc will add to this.

 

Sorry to hear about the Knotweed, self build is always a long game & one that does require more resilience & patience then you are told....

Aye well with the new Building Regs Part F1 and current energy costs I'll be looking at ASHP, MVHR, PV & Battery.

 

I've seen quotes recently for a full renewable package including battery for houses which are 3 times the size of my anticipated build and tbh the figures were not that frightening, given what all was included.

 

The knotweed is a killer here..if we can't design it out as it sits Insitu it will probably but a spanner in the whole project. I roughly measured the size and its something like 40m2...could only see it on the south part of the site though. Reason for the survey is to make sure it's nowhere else and have a management plan there incase future lenders ask for one.

[kingostar]

2 hours ago, Conor said:

That's about right, we built for £1200/m2 in 2021/2022 but that was before prices really went up. Doubt you could do less than £1500m2 overall, unless you're building to a min spec. Allow a good £300k unless you plan on getting your hands dirty and / or managing it yourself. And you need to allow for design and consultancy fees (10%)

Luckily design fees should be much of an issue...the architect is one of my mates and we've agreed a very favourable fee and I'll be doing the M+E design myself.