Our Planning Department in meltdown: suggest the next step please

[Onoff]

36 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

But I am an even bigger cynic than you are about Council complaints' procedures.

 

I have been through the process. Instigated a Stage 1 Complaint over the council's handling of a parking issue. It hinged on them saying I hadn't supplied required evidence with an appeal. I had via emails and recorded delivery. They chose to ignore this and escalated the matter and costs until bailiffs were threatened. This was pre Covid and it was pretty grim dealing with them, receiving faceless letters with no point of contact. I won and got a formal, signed apology but it was pretty stressful and something of a hollow victory.

 

Helped no end having a brother who's a barrister and had worked for an LA in that capacity. 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Onoff

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

The procedural approach may be a report to Overview & Scrutiny at the Council. But I am an even bigger cynic than you are about Council complaints' procedures.

...

 

Thank you. I hadn't thought of that

 

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

...

But I'm still not really sure what you are asking, other than a general complaint expressed elliptically in (nearly) blank verse.

...

 

Quote

...

In common with every other person with whom I discuss planning matters in general I find that none of us gets a reply to any questions we ask. It's a simple generalised wall of silence . It's very disconcerting. 

...

 

 

[Haylingbilly]

Have you tried emailing the head of planning? In my case that at least got them talking to me.

 

I remember one time when I phoned and asked the receptionist to try various different people, after about the 6th person not being available she said, half jokingly, "do you want me to try the whole department?" which was an implied criticism of me asking her to try so many people. I replied, having to try so many people yet still without success, was a reflection on the planning department not on me!  

[the_r_sole]

My (well trodden) route for getting a response from the planning department:

 

Email Case officer

Email Case officer copying in Team Leader

Email Case officer copying in Team Leader and Head of Planning - copy to local councillor

Email Head of Planning and Council Leader, copying in Councillor and Local MP

 

Every time you move up the chain, copy in the email trail of ignored emails - I don't think anyone has any real interest in doing anything but once you're further up they can't be seen to be doing nothing.

 

I've done this more and more recently, I know there is a pandemic etc, but it's really become a huge excuse for local authorities to not do anything on time - in my job people still want and expect their work to get done, if planning wasn't run by "public servants" there might be a chance of putting them under some real pressure but it's a badly run departments performing badly and being given the perfect excuse for it...

 

The added complication of a councillor or whatever not liking your plans is a real pain, you can guarantee that no one want's tot take responsibility for it, especially if it's tough for them to refuse it!

[Temp]

Problem is council budgets have been squeezed for years. If you think planning departments are under resourced try mental health or social care both of which we've had contact with in the last 5 years. 

 

I'm afraid Berxit and the pandemic aren't going to make things easier as a lot of cheap european labor also worked in these sectors.

 

We had issues in 2005-7 getting hold of planning department. I think the only way now is to hold them to the timescale rules on non- determination. I believe they apply to things like discharging conditions as well. 

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, the_r_sole said:

...

I've done this more and more recently, I know there is a pandemic etc, but it's really become a huge excuse for local authorities to not do anything on time - in my job people still want and expect their work to get done, if planning wasn't run by "public servants" there might be a chance of putting them under some real pressure but it's a badly run departments performing badly and being given the perfect excuse for it

...

and

 

35 minutes ago, Temp said:

Problem is council budgets have been squeezed for years. If you think planning departments are under resourced try mental health or social care both of which we've had contact with in the last 5 years....

 

I agree, everyone is being asked to do more with less.

My argument is - well in that case don't tell everyone you're going to deliver exactly the same service with less resource. 

 

Silence is one of the most powerful weapons in any contest for resources.The mantra becomes  Just keep yer head down and the problem will go away, or morph into something else.

 

Our LPA must be coining it at the moment. The Planning Application fees are pouring in : four large development areas round the A6. Everyone and his dog with a spare postage stamp of land thats within sniffing distance of the A6 is planning  a new village. Rollo's dad (remember him - large land owner and major player in the local property market )  is '...trying hard not to buy myself a Bentley... there's so much work on at the moment Ian '  Asked if he has an issue talking to Planners - ' I meet them two or three times a week - always do. '     Whats the problem with us plebs then eh?

 

[the_r_sole]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

Problem is council budgets have been squeezed for years. If you think planning departments are under resourced try mental health or social care both of which we've had contact with in the last 5 years. 

 

I'm afraid Berxit and the pandemic aren't going to make things easier as a lot of cheap european labor also worked in these sectors.

 

We had issues in 2005-7 getting hold of planning department. I think the only way now is to hold them to the timescale rules on non- determination. I believe they apply to things like discharging conditions as well. 

 

The budget thing is definitely a thing but you can't have a crippled Statutory process that has response times set by government, is charged for and has no alternative system in place. If they won't put funding in, then they can't make it statutory, it's a massive risk to do any type of development at the moment because you can't ever plan for the timescales

[Ferdinand]

9 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

and

 

 

I agree, everyone is being asked to do more with less.

My argument is - well in that case don't tell everyone you're going to deliver exactly the same service with less resource. 

 

Silence is one of the most powerful weapons in any contest for resources.The mantra becomes  Just keep yer head down and the problem will go away, or morph into something else.

 

Our LPA must be coining it at the moment. The Planning Application fees are pouring in : four large development areas round the A6. Everyone and his dog with a spare postage stamp of land thats within sniffing distance of the A6 is planning  a new village. Rollo's dad (remember him - large land owner and major player in the local property market )  is '...trying hard not to buy myself a Bentley... there's so much work on at the moment Ian '  Asked if he has an issue talking to Planners - ' I meet them two or three times a week - always do. '     Whats the problem with us plebs then eh?

 

 

I believe planning is expected to be "Cost Recovery", not 'generate excess".

 

The potential beneficeries will be the recipients for S106 and CIL monies, perhaps.

 

Though they may get extra staff, if  the HoP wins the budget war.

[Dreadnaught]

15 hours ago, Temp said:

I think the only way now is to hold them to the timescale rules on non- determination. I believe they apply to things like discharging conditions as well. 

 

Yes, I had both my planning fees refunded and one of the conditions discharged automatically because of non-determination deadlines. They work.

 

Statutory limits are by far the best but correspondence like this can also be useful: "I shall will expect your response by X but in the event that I do not hear from you by this date then I shall deem/assume that…", etc.

[harry_angel]

Where I live planning officers are handling "over 100 cases" each. One of our apps has changed hands twice, being passed from one officer (who we believe left), to another (who definitely left), to the current person.

 

I'm in a funny spot because one of mine is retrospective, works are totally complete and TBH I want them to get to it as late as possible. If they could get to it next Christmas that would be ideal, in fact.

 

There are so many problems with the system it's tough to know where to begin, you could write a tome about it. Fundamentally it all comes back to money, like everything else: our planning fees simply claw back cash, to my knowledge, they aren't "profit" for councils. Then, the next Q becomes: how much should we pay officers? I know, let's pay them £30k then absolutely bury their sorry as*es in 100 applications + all the associated communication and baloney that comes with 100 apps.

 

The village idiot could figure out what happens next: they're down Wetherspoons one Friday afternoon at approx 3pm, having knocked off early, and one of their old colleagues appears who's now got a gig at a planning consultancy, having leapt the fence. He's now earning £50k, for a fraction of the BS, aggro, hassle, being shouted at by applicants and objectors alike.

 

But to me the great villainy here is, as the OP states, the lack of available dialogue. Evan paid dialogue. My LPA's Pre App service has been disabled for over a year, for example. The planning officer on my case said to me: "I simply cannot engage in any dialogue".

 

Then there's the Comments system, which simply weaponises every keyboard warrior there ever was, and causes endless fall-outs, local disharmony, and unnecessary feuds which could probably be worked out with a more anonymous voting system. Where's it all going to end?

 

I have no idea. But just put my app to the bottom of the pile, yeah?

Edited November 15, 2021 by harry_angel
typo

[Dave Jones]

they 'work' for the elected councillors. Attend the next meeting of the planning committee in person.

 

Our local council is equally useless, it takes a certain type to work for the public sector ......

[AliG]

Not sure what the issue is but I got somewhere by using the escalating complaint method -

 

Officer, team leader, head of planning etc.

 

I wouldn't worry about NIMBY objections, most of them are farcical and ignored.

 

The COVID excuse is preposterous. Planning is the kind of job that should be unaffected. I worked from home sitting in the dining room for over a year and got more work done. Planning officers couldn't make site visits so should have more time. TBF I do have a friend who is a planning officer and he sounds very overworked, there has been a big increase in application numbers. However, this brings in more fees so funding should not be an issue. Lack of qualified staff might be though.

 

Now we have a BC application that is taking months and months. Architect recently got an email saying that the officer had been on long term sick and was back. This also happened with planning when our house was applied for. The thing is, no one tells you that they are off sick, they just let you think you are being ignored and cases do not seem to be reallocated.

[ToughButterCup]

14 hours ago, AliG said:

... they just let you think you are being ignored ... 

 

Said far more elegantly than I did earlier.

 

It just like a row with a loved one. To force a stalemate, all thats needed is silence from one or other.  @harry_angel's case is analogous to both parties - arms folded - eyeing one another with scarcely suppressed contempt.

 

Which reminds me, must pop down the garage and get some (still in date) flowers . ?