Help the eejet: stove door.

[zoothorn]

Today if you didn't know is "help the eejet day", & today I can't figure out taking my stove door off. Could you help?

 

I have a manual, door removal on page 6 https://www.harworthheating.co.uk/documents/Technical/Efel %26 Harmony Range/IN1188 Servicing Stanford 80 Harmony 1 and 3 low res.pdf

but it makes no sense. What I find is a brass nut on the hinge top, one on the btm. A hinge 'bar' between, like the 1st main pic.

 

Ok the eejet takes top nut off, a bit of rod thread is left. But how this threaded bit ( obviously part of the pin which is screwed into the bar ) is taken out.. is the mystery. It needs just to be removed, I would think, in order for the door to shift sideways... & possibly off. I am utterly stumped though.

 

 Maybe someone has a similar door configuration? Thanks, the eejet.

Edited October 20, 2021 by zoothorn

[Roundtuit]

Just had a look at the instructions, and it looks like the top hinge pin just pulls out without removing the nut, unless it's tight, in which case take off the nut, insert spacer, replace nut and tighten to pull up the pin a bit.

[zoothorn]

10 minutes ago, Roundtuit said:

Just had a look at the instructions, and it looks like the top hinge pin just pulls out without removing the nut, unless it's tight, in which case take off the nut, insert spacer, replace nut and tighten to pull up the pin a bit.

Ho Roundtuit, Yes I saw this of course.. but the pin is stuck. What I dont get it how if its screwed into the spacer bar thing between the two hinges, can you unscrew it from the bar bit. If you add the spacer & turn nut on how can the pin unscrew from the bar doing this.

 

I must be missing summink. Thx zoot

[Roundtuit]

Doesn't look like there is any thread on the pin other than the the end for the nut, so it should just pull out. 

[Carrerahill]

2 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ho Roundtuit, Yes I saw this of course.. but the pin is stuck. What I dont get it how if its screwed into the spacer bar thing between the two hinges, can you unscrew it from the bar bit. If you add the spacer & turn nut on how can the pin unscrew from the bar doing this.

 

I must be missing summink. Thx zoot

It looks like a simple pin arrangement sitting through the door hinges with a spacer bar in the middle.

 

The pins look to be threaded, but technically only the bottom pin is fastened to anything, according to the illustration, the top pin just sits there held in by gravity.

 

It even suggests a make shift "puller" buy using a washer to help drive it up.

 

I think I would get the top nut off, washer on, and carefully drive the nut down hard until it lifts the pin. If it was me, I would even try and induce some veg oil (to keep burning oily smells to frying pan only and not like that of burning crude oil) to help ease the pin up.

 

It does mention cutting the tube if the pin has ever been hit down - has the pin been smacked at some point?

 

 

 

 

[Temp]

+1'

 

I don't think its screwed into the spacer tube. The pic on the left of page 6 seems clear. Pull up on the top nut rather than unscrew it. Perhaps lever under the nut? 

 

My guess is the pin might have corroded into the tube. In which case some wd40 on it might help.

.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Temp

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, Roundtuit said:

Doesn't look like there is any thread on the pin other than the the end for the nut, so it should just pull out. 

I came to the same conclusion just now.. right now i can see the logic a bit more. Thx for helping the eejet out.
 

Right so I put washer on, nut, tightened down ( now knowing pin isnt screwed into bar).. & fouled both the thread & the nut. Ruined. Pin just remained put, the nut sheared the threads up tightening it on.

 

So annoyed! Such an eejet. Such a terrible stove too: don't buy nestor martin/ efel... utter junk: new front guard I bought a few yrs ago, straight when bought looks like this after 3 winters, wont sit in its grooves properly:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, Temp said:

+1'

 

I don't think its screwed into the spacer tube. The pic on the left of page 6 seems clear. Pull up on the top nut rather than unscrew it. Perhaps lever under the nut? 

 

My guess is the pin might have corroded into the tube. In which case some wd40 on it might help.

.

Hi Temp. Trouble is if the pin was wedged in firmer than the force tightening the nut/ washer down... the nut & thread lose. And the pin remains put. I don't know if ever it has been whacked, not by me definitely not... but person before who knows, but I don't see why anyone would need to hit down on this, no reason to, nor via a bump/ accidental knock its too tucked away really.

 

Anyway. Door cannot be removed. So thanks anyway. Zoot

 

 

[zoothorn]

12 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

smells to frying pan only and not like that of burning crude oil) to help ease the pin up.

 

It does mention cutting the tube if the pin has ever been hit down - has the pin been smacked at some point?

 

 

 

 

Hi CHill.

 Cutting the tube?! Last resort I guess. Its a costly 3 parts if I do this. I think Im getter off leaving door as it is.

 

I was just attempting door rope replacing.. ended up bodging it dammit. Will have to do with door in place. Thx zh

[Temp]

How good are you at metalwork?

 

Most likely the threads and bar are a standard diameter. If the door has to come off I'd be thinking about cutting it and remaking using a length of threaded rod, tube and domed nuts. 

 

 

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

How good are you at metalwork?

 

Most likely the threads and bar are a standard diameter. If the door has to come off I'd be thinking about cutting it and remaking using a length of threaded rod, tube and domed nuts. 

 

 

I see what you mean.. i assumed the pin was a smooth affair within the bar bit, then threaded above it: but you mean just go a smaller diameter threaded rod so it can just get into the bar.

 

Tbh no Im not good at metalwork, but worth considering this simple idea.. maybe take stock after this winter. Thanks Temp.

 

 

[Temp]

What I meant was if I was replacing it I'd measure the hole diameter in the door hinge and find a threaded rod long enough to go from top nut to bottom nut. Then a tube with an ID to match the threaded rod or a bit bigger. Add some washers and job done. 

 

Normally you wouldn't have threads on a hinge pin as it causes wear but it's not like the door is going to be doing hundreds of rpm :-) If really keen buy an unthreaded rod and a die to cut threads each end.

 

I'm away from my PC or I'd do a sketch.

 

 

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, Temp said:

What I meant was if I was replacing it I'd measure the hole diameter in the door hinge and find a threaded rod long enough to go from top nut to bottom nut. Then a tube with an ID to match the threaded rod or a bit bigger. Add some washers and job done. 

 

Normally you wouldn't have threads on a hinge pin as it causes wear but it's not like the door is going to be doing hundreds of rpm :-) If really keen buy an unthreaded rod and a die to cut threads each end.

 

I'm away from my PC or I'd do a sketch.

 

 

Ah got it Temp. Good idea indeed. By god that'll save a few quid over efel parts. if i cut the thing. Which i will have to do now ive ruined the thread/ I guess im resigned to this job sometime.

 

Great help that thanks. Eejet helped!

[zoothorn]

AS Im loathed to start another thread out of embarrassment ( for all my threads mounting up!), if I can ask a few general stove woes questions to you knowledgeable folks-?
 

In my photo, my guard is warped/ bowed inwards. This suggests excessive heat, & I bought this guard to replace the one before ( ebay used stove.. not my best buy) similarly warped. Now having never run it excessively hot, it's a mystery why it's gone like this.
 

But one clue perhaps is thus: once bought i noticed a small casing crack, on front left leg, meaning a small air intake innevitable via here. Also if it had been dropped on this corner ( i think likely reason ), then possible other small gaps in casing underneath too. Yes I shoulda returned it/ refund etc.. but didn't know significance of a small crack, thought I could just fill it & fine ( not possible).

 

Running, it's unable to be 'shut down to minimum' properly via its two controls (it still gallops away with both closed): Im only able to tame it with a flue damper.. even so it still wants to go at a clip tbh.

 

I cant turn it upside down/ airtest it, to find the wee gaps & weld, as it's just too massive a job to do. Could I fill this crack somehow though? Any other ideas about my warped guard? 
 

Thanks zh.

[dpmiller]

car exhaust putty? High temp (flue) silicone?

[Trw144]

Fire cement. The air tightness (and consequent  output control) of that particular stove is dependent upon the cast iron body being sealed together. If you are so inclined, strip it down and rebuild it, cementing the joints. Also check the door seals as this could also contribute to over firing the log guard.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Trw144 said:

Fire cement. The air tightness (and consequent  output control) of that particular stove is dependent upon the cast iron body being sealed together. If you are so inclined, strip it down and rebuild it, cementing the joints. Also check the door seals as this could also contribute to over firing the log guard.

Hi there thanks for this. I dad try fire cement in my front accessible crack now I recall.. but kept falling out because i think of the slight expanding/ contracting thing of the main casing.

 

So the typical KOS black stuff, which seems to work fine on my flue/ redoing the plate etc.. will just crack & fall out should I strip it down & use this to squeeze into any slight gaps.

 

It seems like there's a sort of fire "funnelling" towards the midfront of this guard, & I can only see something along these lines happening when I get the fire going: I stock it well, kindling & smaller split stuff, open both lower door & the plate thing back twds R, & get it going all guns until 300*F = my mark to then close both, & put on my 1st 2 logs ( on a nice glowing bed), it then ups & will run happily 330*F to 350*F.. which on my dial corresponds perfectly-aligned ( it seems suggesting Ive got my temp right ) with the midpoint of the " best operation" straight midday up: & I get decent heat from it, I think. Possibly losing a bit due to the air innevitably seeping in the wee gaps tho.

 

So my technique.. would you say is ok? I mean nothing Im doing, is there(?) to cause this guard warping myself-? My 1st stove you see hence explaining my method. Thx zh

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, dpmiller said:

car exhaust putty? High temp (flue) silicone?

Car exhaust putty? Well I never.. that's an idea. I didnt know about existance of either of these tbh.

 

Good ideas thanks dpm.

[Onoff]

This is handy, goes in a standard mastic gun:

 

https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/not-categorised/not-categorised/exhaust-assembly-paste-150ml/p/ZT1229828P?

[zoothorn]

15 hours ago, Onoff said:

This is handy, goes in a standard mastic gun:

 

https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/not-categorised/not-categorised/exhaust-assembly-paste-150ml/p/ZT1229828P?

Thanks might be he ticket.
 

But wouldn't stoves run at much higher temps than car exhausts though?

[Conor]

When I worked with a guy restoring Agas, warped doors and frames were common after enamelling. We used lots of fibreglass rope and heatproof silicone to get a good seal and would add extra lengths at corners that had cracked or didn't align. Temps obviously lower than a stove box.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Conor

[Onoff]

36 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Thanks might be he ticket.
 

But wouldn't stoves run at much higher temps than car exhausts though?

 

If anything the stove probably runs a little cooler than a car exhaust I think. 

 

Not as hot as a microwaved croissant mind! Did this the other night, nuked a stale croissant for 30 seconds. Put it to my lips and whoosh, a jet of scalding steam came out of it:

 

 

It looks like something I've caught off @pocster! 

 

Attractive eh? 

[zoothorn]

Im pretty sure Onoff that is herpes. And if you caught it off pocaster, well...

 

Im up a gumtree understanding these stoves' airtight aspect tbh. Here I am faffing with small cracks, alot of time & trick jobs to locate & fill contorting myself around it... then I see this stupid design grate waggler nonsense, arm up the back etc.. & a bloody gap obviously for the stupid thing's protrusion section to slide L to R within. As big as my bloody crack.
 

And similarly there has to be a gap, for the back door plate slide thing's handle shaft, albeit small its nevertheless a gap, which air will rocket into. But these are never nentioned. Tbh so stupid a design the grate waggler seems to me to be, ive removed the two arms of it (so I don't inadvertently use it) & stuffed the protruding iron piece's gap with wads of foil. This gap, was as big if not bigger than my front crack + mini crack gaps.
 

So in essence, Im on a parity in terms of airthightness, having done my foil wad, as a new stove without a front crack. But mine runs away out of control, & has this guard warp thing going on ( a new stove, I must assume, just wouldn't).

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, Conor said:

When I worked with a guy restoring Agas, warped doors and frames were common after enamelling. We used lots of fibreglass rope and heatproof silicone to get a good seal and would add extra lengths at corners that had cracked or didn't align. Temps obviously lower than a stove box.

Hi Conor, heatproof silicone seems the best next try.. i assume the main idea is being flexible? Thx zoot

[dpmiller]

metals warp with heat, it's what they do. But a stove that's uncontrollable is obviously getting air from somewhere it shouldn't.  Are there any "fixed" apertures with screw adjustment? Is there a thermostat and has it's calibration been checked? Does the door need a new rope?