Help with old Victorian terrace

[Bex]

Hi all, I am new to the group and new to building work in general.

I have just purchased a 1900 victorian end terrace with a large gable end - thought to be a result of neighbouring house being bombed in WW2

My concern is related to penetrating damp on the internal walls. I have had a variety of opinions from local damp proof specialists and builders. The damp proof course is 15 years old. They are solid walls not Cavity walls and the damp appears in wet patches on the lower walls after heavy rain.

 

I am fairly certain this is related to the exterior gable end wall, which is rendered in sand/cement render. 

The rendering extends too low - potentially covering air bricks, it is uneven and there are cracks and some visable damp in the render itself. The chimney stacks also need pointing/flashing/ capping.

 

A full replacement of the external render would be a BIG job - I've had quotes around £10,000 for silicone (K rend) but the exterior wall is HUGe and the render extends along the kitchen wall too which would all need replacement if I start.

 

Ideally I would love to go back to the original brickwork.

 

Questions would be

- does anyone have experience of doing this? I wont know what the quality of the bricks is like until the render is removed

- would restoring the brickwork beneath the render be just as expensive as new render and is render always the best protector for the brickwork anyway?

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

[markc]

First thing to ask yourself - is it penetrating damp or damp trying to get out?

removing render can be laborious, expensive and end up with a horrible looking brick that looks like it’s be hit by a 1000 pigeon Sh1ts.

sand blasting cleans it up well but then the brickwork can stilllook bad if it’s spalled and crumbling.

also render that is loose and cracking allows water behind and then it’s trapped.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Bex said:

rendered in sand/cement render. 

If that is the case then it will keep most rain out and can breathe. probably not the  problem.

 

All the things you mentioned need looking at.

 

DPC: is this a physical dpc or injected?

Flashings at chimneys. very vulnerable to ingress, and the build-up of muck including dead things. Also v difficult to inspect.

 

Airbricks. these will not be  ventilating the walls, but under the ground floor. They often get covered and you should check but that probably isn't the issue here.

 

Chimneys. You have chimney pots without covers. These were great when fire were burning all the time. Now rains falls straight in and lands where the chimney stack cranks...usually at about half way up the wall of each floor.

 

I would try to find an independent local expert. NOT a render company as they usually use one product for better or worse. Not a builder unless they can first prove some real knowledge...make a checklist of suggestions from us lot, don't tell the builder, and see if they match.

 

An Architect or Engineer or Surveyor (Note the Capitals) will give an honest , warts and all report. They may even say that it isn't an easy matter, and the cure will be partial. 

Again, check that they are expert in this gutty, unsexy side of building. Many don't have this expertise.  These professionals will charge, but that is better than thousands spent on something useless or worse.

 

For a bit more help from us, could you do a sketch and mark where the worst damp or damage is? including the chimneys, but not necessarily exactly to scale.

[Brickie]

I’m fairly certain your property wasn’t always end of terrace-I think the rendered wall was previously the Party Wall & is 99% definitely not face (attractive) brickwork behind that render. Might still look nice,just not going to be as neat & tidy as the front as it was never intended to be seen. The erstwhile neighbours side of your chimney stack appears to be capped & unventilated-this might not be the cause of your problems but is undesirable & requires attention. 

[TonyT]

Get someone to drill holes and take dust samples at the ‘damp’ locations to then do a speedy carbide test to prove ‘damp’

[SteamyTea]

Check all gutters and drainpipes.

 

[Brickie]

Are the internal chimney breasts removed?

If still present,are they (or have they in recent times been) still in use?

[Bex]

On 11/10/2021 at 14:17, markc said:

First thing to ask yourself - is it penetrating damp or damp trying to get out?

removing render can be laborious, expensive and end up with a horrible looking brick that looks like it’s be hit by a 1000 pigeon Sh1ts.

sand blasting cleans it up well but then the brickwork can stilllook bad if it’s spalled and crumbling.

also render that is loose and cracking allows water behind and then it’s trapped.

Hi  - thanks for the thoughts, really appreciated

Im fairly certain this is penetrating damp - marks on walls appear darker and damper after heavy rain fall

I will send rough diagrams of the house and areas of damp - as advised below to explain more

, Thanks

[Bex]

20 hours ago, Brickie said:

Are the internal chimney breasts removed?

If still present,are they (or have they in recent times been) still in use?

Hi - thanks for questions

Both breasts still in place (eek now I realise there are so many cheeky innuendos in DIY)

one chimney recently flued and in use (front) with no real damp internally

the back room chimney breast is not in use and fully blocked at internal exit. Damp also present internally here (see photo) 

[Bex]

23 hours ago, saveasteading said:

If that is the case then it will keep most rain out and can breathe. probably not the  problem.

 

All the things you mentioned need looking at.

 

DPC: is this a physical dpc or injected?

Flashings at chimneys. very vulnerable to ingress, and the build-up of muck including dead things. Also v difficult to inspect.

 

Airbricks. these will not be  ventilating the walls, but under the ground floor. They often get covered and you should check but that probably isn't the issue here.

 

Chimneys. You have chimney pots without covers. These were great when fire were burning all the time. Now rains falls straight in and lands where the chimney stack cranks...usually at about half way up the wall of each floor.

 

I would try to find an independent local expert. NOT a render company as they usually use one product for better or worse. Not a builder unless they can first prove some real knowledge...make a checklist of suggestions from us lot, don't tell the builder, and see if they match.

 

An Architect or Engineer or Surveyor (Note the Capitals) will give an honest , warts and all report. They may even say that it isn't an easy matter, and the cure will be partial. 

Again, check that they are expert in this gutty, unsexy side of building. Many don't have this expertise.  These professionals will charge, but that is better than thousands spent on something useless or worse.

 

For a bit more help from us, could you do a sketch and mark where the worst damp or damage is? including the chimneys, but not necessarily exactly to scale.

 

 

Thanks so much, your questions and thoughts are really useful!!

 

Here is my sketch and some photos of the damp walls - labelled A and B on the sketch 

 

Any further advice is appreciated

 

[Bex]

22 hours ago, TonyT said:

Get someone to drill holes and take dust samples at the ‘damp’ locations to then do a speedy carbide test to prove ‘damp’

This has been suggested by one damp specialist and does need doing - he thought the decking at the back of the property abutting the walls may have been the issue

Thanks again

[Brickie]

The fireplace which is redundant really needs to be ventilated-a Louvre or air brick should be fitted. 
Is the height of the decking roughly the same as your internal floor height? 
If so,rain splash up will be affecting your walls above DPC. 
 

[Bex]

On 12/10/2021 at 16:07, Brickie said:

The fireplace which is redundant really needs to be ventilated-a Louvre or air brick should be fitted. 
Is the height of the decking roughly the same as your internal floor height? 
If so,rain splash up will be affecting your walls above DPC. 
 

Yes, i think decking is high and could be adding to problems

[Brickie]

Do you have a photo of the back door from outside?

[Adsibob]

On 11/10/2021 at 13:43, Bex said:

have had a variety of opinions from local damp proof specialists and builders.

Avoid getting an opinion from anybody that has a vested interest in selling you their services to fix it. Get an opinion from a RICS surveyor who does not sell any treatments or solutions, just diagnoses the problem and tells you how to fix it.

 The “damp specialists” tend only to be specialists in conning people.

[Brickie]

+1

[Adsibob]

I’m currently handing a £5k claim against a “damp surveyor” who conned my parents out of a lot of money to inject their walls with useless chemicals. The industry is rife with conmen. 

[Jilly]

The 'Haynes Manual' for period houses is very useful.

[Brickie]

David Kimsey’s website is well worth a visit. 

[Bex]

On 16/10/2021 at 18:46, Adsibob said:

I’m currently handing a £5k claim against a “damp surveyor” who conned my parents out of a lot of money to inject their walls with useless chemicals. The industry is rife with conmen. 

sorry :( I put down a deposit for a new damp course but luckily retracted it and they gave me deposit back. Hope your parents get some compensation

[Bex]

On 16/10/2021 at 15:53, Brickie said:

Do you have a photo of the back door from outside?

Yes, the yellow circles are the walls were internally there is damp. The red area is where the decking abutted the house but in the last few weeks we have added the ventilation of the silver drain so that the decking doesnt go all the way to the wall. Too early to tell if this has made a difference I think. Hope you can see the imager ok - let me know any thoughts you have.

[markc]

Left side is more than likely the down pipes. Right side looks like it could be a fence fixed to the wall, if someone has gone a bit OTT with a drill the fixings could be pulling water into the wall. Under the door I would say the fill is the problem, not shedding water and drawing it back under.

[Bex]

Just now, markc said:

Left side is more than likely the down pipes. Right side looks like it could be a fence fixed to the wall, if someone has gone a bit OTT with a drill the fixings could be pulling water into the wall. Under the door I would say the fill is the problem, not shedding water and drawing it back under.

Hi Mark - what would you suggest with the wall on the left side, how do we get round this problem of it drawing water in?

Also can you further explain what you mean by under the door 'the fill is the problem' and suggest how I would solve this? Thanks 

[Bex]

On 17/10/2021 at 07:22, Brickie said:

David Kimsey’s website is well worth a visit. 

Can you give a website link please - I have googled and cant find it

[markc]

58 minutes ago, Bex said:

Hi Mark - what would you suggest with the wall on the left side, how do we get round this problem of it drawing water in?

Also can you further explain what you mean by under the door 'the fill is the problem' and suggest how I would solve this? Thanks 

Hi, I would definitely sort out the down pipes, get rid of the vegetation, seal any gaps etc. Where water looks to be coming out ... easier to see when raining.

If the other side is a fence post I would take it off, seal any holes and re fix with spacers to allow air to circulate.

Under door looks to be a bit raggy, but could be me looking on a small screen. Possibly scrape out any loose material and re point with mortar or sealant.

Also clean underside of cill, there should be a groove to force water to drop off and not track back towards wall underneath the cill. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by markc