Home networking

[Evs]

I’m looking to install some home networking in my house, I’ve been doing some research but the more video’s I watch or articles I read it just goes deeper and deeper, then I find myself going way too indepth for what I actually need lol. 

 

This is what I’m trying to achieve:

• I want to put a data point in every bedroom (there are 4 bedrooms ) for tv’s & games consoles etc. 
• I will be using NVR cctv so my recorder will need a hard wired connection. 
• Data point in the office.
• Other data points for wifi access points.

 

Therefor I know I need: modem - router - switch - patch ports in every room linked back to the switch. 

 

Can anyone tell me if I’m missing anything and can point me in the direction of some good brands that they have used? 

In regards to the modem and router, are the ones providers use up to the job or am I better off supplying my own?

[elite]

• Consider running at least two cables to each location - I would run 4 to main TV position
• Cable to each CCTV camera position
• I would wire back to a patch panel, rather than direct to the switch
• Consider small 19" rack and devices with rack ears to keep it neat
• Some switches can have very noisy fans
• Think about which devices require POE and make sure your switches can provide the standard of POE required

Most ISPs will only "officialy" support their supplied modem/router, though you can use your own with most. I use my own and would just swap out for the ISP supplied one if they were trying to tell me a line fault was due to me running my own gear.

 

I run Draytek router/modem, netgear switches and Ubiquiti wifi with no complaints. Would probably be tempted to go all ubiquiti if starting from scratch now

 

 

 

[Evs]

5 hours ago, elite said:

• Consider running at least two cables to each location - I would run 4 to main TV position
• Cable to each CCTV camera position
• I would wire back to a patch panel, rather than direct to the switch
• Consider small 19" rack and devices with rack ears to keep it neat
• Some switches can have very noisy fans
• Think about which devices require POE and make sure your switches can provide the standard of POE required

Most ISPs will only "officialy" support their supplied modem/router, though you can use your own with most. I use my own and would just swap out for the ISP supplied one if they were trying to tell me a line fault was due to me running my own gear.

 

I run Draytek router/modem, netgear switches and Ubiquiti wifi with no complaints. Would probably be tempted to go all ubiquiti if starting from scratch now

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Why so many to each location and 4 to the tv? In case of a breakdown in one cable or so I can have more ports at each location? Also what would be the benefit of wiring them back to a patch panel rather that directly to the switch? I

 

I’ve already been looking at the racks actually, definitely going install one. 

[IanR]

14 minutes ago, Evs said:

Why so many to each location and 4 to the tv? In case of a breakdown in one cable or so I can have more ports at each location?

 

I believe most people would recommend to do this. Not only TV's "get networked", but sound bars, home theatre amps, Android/Apple TV boxes, Chromecast, Streamers, the next "big thing" etc etc. Hardwired is more robust than Wi-Fi, and Cat 6 is relatively cheap so may as well stick extra in.

 

14 minutes ago, Evs said:

Also what would be the benefit of wiring them back to a patch panel rather that directly to the switch?

Flexibility. You only need to make a connection live, when you intend to use it. ie. patch it from the patch panel to the switch. You can also change whether or not that connection has PoE, if you run a PoE switch and a normal switch (PoE ports are a premium so you may not wish to have capacity for all connections to be PoE)
 

Edited August 8, 2021 by IanR

[jack]

14 minutes ago, Evs said:

Why so many to each location and 4 to the tv?

 

TV + console or 2 + sky + DVR (if you use one) + media PC (if you use one) + sound bar (if you use one). It adds up. 

[elite]

As above - I've never regretted running an extra cable, but I have regretted not running an extra cable when I've had to mount some ugly mini switch somewhere to give me an extra port !

 

Patchbays give you a lot of flexibility, @IanR mentioned POE, but you can also patch telephone, video, etc that you may not want to terminate in a switch. For example, the CT clamp for our solar diverter runs from the distribution board, through our patchbay, and out to the device, not going through the switch

[Evs]

2 minutes ago, IanR said:

 

I believe most people would recommend to do this. Not only TV's "get networked", but sound bars, home theatre amps, Android/Apple TV boxes, Chromecast, Streamers, the next "big thing" etc etc. Hardwired is more robust than Wi-Fi, and Cat 6 is relatively cheap so may as well stick extra in.

 

Flexibility. You only need to make a connection live, when you intend to use it. ie. patch it from the patch panel to the switch. You can also change whether or not that connection has PoE, if you run a PoE switch and a normal switch (PoE ports are a premium so you may not wish to have capacity for all connections to be PoE)
 

 

I totally forgot about the soundbar and sky haha. Ah I see what you mean. 

 

When running the cables to the TV then for example, would you run the cables out through a brushed socket or install 4 port patch socket? Obviously depending where the connection is on the back of the tv or soundbar then I need to be able to pull slack down to connect it into the device. Where as if I put a patch socket in then I can just make up cables to the right length and connect them straight into the socket? 

 

Just now, jack said:

 

TV + console or 2 + sky + DVR (if you use one) + media PC (if you use one) + sound bar (if you use one). It adds up. 

 

 

[IanR]

8 minutes ago, Evs said:

When running the cables to the TV then for example, would you run the cables out through a brushed socket or install 4 port patch socket?

 

I've done a mixture of each, depending on how visible they are.

[elite]

It depends on the setup I usually prefer sockets, but often you will need HDMI or other connectors too

[Chef40]

I would try and run Cat 6a cable if you can - it’ll handle 10GB Ethernet when that’s standard in the not too distant future.

you can’t go wrong with HP - something like a 2530 switch (bit noisy, so maybe place in cupboard under stairs or similar) and I have had excellent experience with use/features and performance from the Aruba Instant On kit…

[LSB]

the trouble with 6a is that it doesn't bend as well as 6 and will break if you force it and as it is thicker it can be tricky to get in / out of RJ45 sockets

 

[James Newport]

Cat6 supports 10Gb, but only up to 55m.

[Evs]

This is my other dilemma, do I run cat5 or cat6 cable? 

 

 

[Chef40]

1 hour ago, Evs said:

This is my other dilemma, do I run cat5 or cat6 cable? 

 

 

Definitely Cat 6, if not 6a. I work in IT and did my house in 6a and also ran 6a to garages and shed. No regrets! ?

[GaryM]

blimey,  I just ran cat5 to the four corners of my house and put a wifi access point at each of the 4 outlets, it works a treat.  Keep it simple ( otherwise I can't understand it  )

[joth]

15 hours ago, LSB said:

the trouble with 6a is that it doesn't bend as well as 6 and will break if you force it and as it is thicker it can be tricky to get in / out of RJ45 sockets

 

I ran cat6a everywhere (including to every light switch, motion sensor, TV point, extra wall jacks in each room). no issues with bending or breaking, definitely a little more tricky to terminate but fine with the right parts.

My only regret is not running more! (For some reason, only 2x drops to each TV, 4 would have been much better. Largely as I'm now using HDbaseT HDMI repeaters which has stolen one straight off) 

 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, joth said:

including to every light switch

Why. I don't find flicking a light switch an arduous task, nor does my 93 year old mother. I never asked my 103 grand mother, when she was alive, but whenever I went around the lights where on if needed.

[joth]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Why. I don't find flicking a light switch an arduous task, nor does my 93 year old mother. I never asked my 103 grand mother, when she was alive, but whenever I went around the lights where on if needed.

1/ it's what Loxone Tree runs on

2/ I designed the house for me, not for you, nor your 93 year old mother. 

 

The whole point of doing self build is to get your own building that meets your own needs and wants. I believe I can put whatever wires I want in the wall and not have to justify it to the homogenous homes thought police.

 

 

 

[joth]

Just now, joth said:

1/ it's what Loxone Tree runs on

 

OK I lie - they recommend CAT7 or their silly proprietary Tree cable, but I found cat6a easier to get, more flexible and just as reliable, which is the main point here.

?

[joth]

59 minutes ago, joth said:

1/ it's what Loxone Tree runs on

2/ I designed the house for me, not for you, nor your 93 year old mother

(in case anyone is genuinely interested)

3/ The light switches include temperature and humidity sensors in each room, plus  more buttons we use for blinds, roof window openers, and audio control,  so it does mean a net saving in wires, thermostats, and wall-clutter, not to mention a safer, more comfortable and more efficient building (automatic windows/blinds and light and sound energy savings)

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by joth

[SimonD]

3 hours ago, joth said:

(in case anyone is genuinely interested)

humidity sensors

I'm genuinely interested in humidity sensors for data logging . I'd like to install some underneath my new suspended timber floor - to sit there in perpetuity. Supplier I was recommended no longer supply them and I don't even have a brand name to search. Can you recommend any for me to look at?

[joth]

1 hour ago, SimonD said:

I'm genuinely interested in humidity sensors for data logging . I'd like to install some underneath my new suspended timber floor - to sit there in perpetuity. Supplier I was recommended no longer supply them and I don't even have a brand name to search. Can you recommend any for me to look at?

Funnily enough that's one feature I currently don't use at all so far. The mvhr has whole house humidity and I find that sufficient for the simple things this far. 

What are you connecting it back to? There's several 1-wire options, or I'd look at what's well supported in esphome 

I've used BME280 in microcontroller projects professionally, but wouldn't particularly recommend it. 

 

[James Newport]

Shelly have a couple of humidity options. They're nice because they need very little tinkering to get them up and running. You can get started with their own built in web interface, but they can also push their data to whatever device is being used for logging via HTTP or MQTT. 

 

There is a battery driven wireless sensor - https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-ht-white/, but they sell an adapter to run it off a usb cable. Not the best option to sit permanently under a floor though. 

 

You can also combine their basic wifi switch with a humidity sensor (https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-1/, https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-temp-addon/ and https://thepihut.com/products/am2302-wired-dht22-temperature-humidity-sensor)

[SimonD]

On 13/08/2021 at 20:14, joth said:

Funnily enough that's one feature I currently don't use at all so far. The mvhr has whole house humidity and I find that sufficient for the simple things this far. 

What are you connecting it back to? There's several 1-wire options, or I'd look at what's well supported in esphome 

I've used BME280 in microcontroller projects professionally, but wouldn't particularly recommend it. 

 

 

Thanks, there were two options, one which connected back into Raspberry Pi, the other came with drivers for Windows so I could download data onto my pc at certain intervals. Since my post, I found the original recommended sensor but it's only available from the US and pretty expensive.

 

On 13/08/2021 at 20:36, James Newport said:

Shelly have a couple of humidity options. They're nice because they need very little tinkering to get them up and running. You can get started with their own built in web interface, but they can also push their data to whatever device is being used for logging via HTTP or MQTT. 

 

There is a battery driven wireless sensor - https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-ht-white/, but they sell an adapter to run it off a usb cable. Not the best option to sit permanently under a floor though. 

 

You can also combine their basic wifi switch with a humidity sensor (https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-1/, https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-temp-addon/ and https://thepihut.com/products/am2302-wired-dht22-temperature-humidity-sensor)

 

Hmm, I like the look of the Shelly sensor, thanks for that. Easier than everything else I've seen so far and actually not a bad price. The usb powered version I reckon from the specs is worth a punt as it should be able to cope with the prevailing underfloor environment!

[SimonD]

Just tought I'd post an update in case there's an interest here. Unfortunately, I've not experienced a great introduction to the Shelly stable of IoT ?

 

I bought 3 of the humidity sensors plus a couple of other items from Shelly and received them during the week. Setup was flaky, requiring several attempts to get them online. Eventually I got them online and placed them in some test locations to see what happened. I wanted to test reporting frequency and wifi capability. 2 of the 3 reported mesasurement for up to about 8 hours, then went to sleep and I had no means of waking them up to change sensor settings or force a report. Then, during the night, they went offline. Interestingly, I had two units placed next to each other and the other unit carried on reporting back.

 

When these units go offline, I could find no way of getting them back online without having to physical reset the units and go through the process of re-adding them to the app and home wifi network and then the cloud. This time it again took several attempts to do it successfully.

 

I've also tried configuring the sensors through their own wifi access point, but they have a tendency to go to sleep while I'm either connecting to them or using the http interface.

 

So now I've placed the sensors in other locations and for 24 hours they been running fine and report at fairly regular intervals. Unfortunately it seems that Shelly have updated the app/http interface and configuration access to the H & T units such that I'm not able to easily set a reporting frequency. In their manual, it shows this option and I wanted to have them report back on a 24 hour basis, but the app and http interface only allows me to set reporting based on temp and humidity change thresholds. The other thing I can't work out is how to wake the things up. When I've tried to change thresholds for temp and humidity the app tells me the sensor will update when it next wakes up or that I can do this manually within the app, but there is no option anywhere in the app or http interface where I can force this (that I've been able to find).

 

I don't think it's the sensors themselves that are the problem, more that it's the app/interface  and poor documentation available from Shelly. I can very much see what they're trying to achieve and maybe I just need a bit more time playing around to understand what's going on. I am somewhat wondering if there's a way to hardwire these using the pinout instead, or just going down the route of Raspberry Pi where I've got better access to support and assistance.

 

Meanwhile, I was tempted by Shelly's other offerings so I am playing around with some other ideas - nothing like scope creep!

 

Anyway, work in progress ?