Country File

[nod]

I’ve just watched CF A leading environmentalist stated While we are not against wind farm we need to look at ways of reducing the impact on wildlife and also ways to reduce cabling 

With the big switch from gas to electricity imminent Will this not mean more disruption and more cabling 

Or it it something else that hasn’t been thought through 

[joe90]

Not sure where I heard it but someone stated that if all cars went to electric and gas was ruled out the National Grid would not cope and would have to be massively upgraded.

[nod]

  On 25/07/2021 at 07:54, joe90 said:

Not sure where I heard it but someone stated that if all cars went to electric and gas was ruled out the National Grid would not cope and would have to be massively upgraded.

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It’s a good point Joe 

How many time do we here that we can’t make a new connection for our builds without upgrading a line or transformer 

 

Only a few weeks ago it was reported that the National grid came under pressure at the England game half time ☕️ 

[SteamyTea]

  On 25/07/2021 at 07:54, joe90 said:

Not sure where I heard it but someone stated that if all cars went to electric and gas was ruled out the National Grid would not cope and would have to be massively upgraded.

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If we woke up tomorrow and there was no gas and all transport was electrified, then yes.

But as this is going to be planned phase out of fossil fuels, then over time the grid will be adapted to to this into account.

I did some calculations a while back to see just what could be done on any given day if we wanted to charge cars up.

If we allowed willy nilly charging at any time we like, then 3.5 million cars could be charged, if we limited to the E7 window, then 7.5 million.

Now a car is going to draw about 30 Amps on an overnight charge, and take around 15 kWh.

A heat pump in an average house will draw about 7 Amps, and take about 20 kWh on a very cold day. So less power by a factor of 3, and it is power that the grid is concerned with, the extra energy, that cars and homes needs us just a matter of more generation, that is like putting extra fuel in a car 'just in case' you need to drive faster for a bit longer. With 60 GW of generation available to the NG, most of that capacity is already there, and more added every day.

We have now got rid of coal fired generation (just about) and no one noticed.

We also have reduced nuclear generation, and no one noticed.

But 1 wind turbine in a field, and there is outcry.

 

[Conor]

  On 25/07/2021 at 07:54, joe90 said:

Not sure where I heard it but someone stated that if all cars went to electric and gas was ruled out the National Grid would not cope and would have to be massively upgraded.

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It's actually the complete opposite. Can't remember the name but I listened to a podcast that interviewed a guy from national grid that managed something like future planning. Having 10m electric cars with vehicle to grid capabilities would dramatically reduce the peak loading demands on the network as the combined storage is far more than the grid capacity and it would only take a few kWh from the cars to "flatten the curve" and reduce the peak generation requirement.

 

This, of course, requires properly thought out car charging standards, smart chargers, meter etc etc.... 

[SteamyTea]

  On 25/07/2021 at 08:18, nod said:

Only a few weeks ago it was reported that the National grid came under pressure at the England game half time

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That scenario is well understood and managed. The grid was never in danger of collapsing. 

  On 25/07/2021 at 08:18, nod said:

How many time do we here that we can’t make a new connection for our builds without upgrading a line or transformer

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This is to do with the local grid, not the main infrastructure. 

You would not run your immersion heater of your lighting circuit, so why expect the local DNO to supply reliable power to your new house free of charge. National Grid and the DNOs are private commercial companies, like Tesco and the local pub, they don't give stuff away.

[nod]

  On 25/07/2021 at 08:32, SteamyTea said:

That scenario is well understood and managed. The grid was never in danger of collapsing. 

This is to do with the local grid, not the main infrastructure. 

You would not run your immersion heater of your lighting circuit, so why expect the local DNO to supply reliable power to your new house free of charge. National Grid and the DNOs are private commercial companies, like Tesco and the local pub, they don't give stuff away.

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It would be an issue IF gas and oil is ever fazed out

That one Connection would be x by millions 

I can see many homes be converted to HP

and possibly forcing new builds to use electric rather than gas 

But I’m pretty sure that Fossil  fuels will be used to generate  the power for years to come 

FAZED in Slowwwwwly 

[SteamyTea]

  On 25/07/2021 at 08:44, nod said:

would be an issue IF gas and oil is ever fazed out

That one Connection would be x by millions

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There are two issues here. 

There is the carrying capacity of the grid (the wires and transformers) and the generation capacity (the power stations, turbines and solar farms).

The reason a transformer needs upgrading is because it is cheaper to do than run larger cables.

There is nothing to stop, technically, in running a higher voltage through the local grid, and then stepping the voltage down to 230V at each house (well there may be some places where safety is a concern). 

Ohm's Law covers most of it.

[Oz07]

  On 25/07/2021 at 08:28, Conor said:

 

"flatten the curve" 

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Lol-sorry couldnt help my self 

[ProDave]

  On 25/07/2021 at 08:28, Conor said:

Having 10m electric cars with vehicle to grid capabilities would dramatically reduce the peak loading demands on the network as the combined storage is far more than the grid capacity and it would only take a few kWh from the cars to "flatten the curve" and reduce the peak generation requirement.

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I recall this being discussed before.  If an average EV does 200 miles to a charge, and the life of the battery pack will withstand 1000 charge / discharge cycles, then you have a car that will do 200K miles before the batteries are worn out, Not to dissimilar to what you can get from an average IC engine before it requires some serious work.

 

But plug it into the grid and give them free reign to charge and discharge it at their whim, how much is your battery life going to be used up?

 

Why would anyone choose to let the grid discharge your car battery, unless you are paid properly to compensate for the fact it may not always be full when you want to drive off and it may shorten the battery life?

 

[Temp]

Report in my news feed said electruc cars were now cheaper to own and run overall. Cost of fuel outweighing more expensive purchase price.

[Pocster]

  On 25/07/2021 at 08:26, SteamyTea said:

we allowed willy nilly charging

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Charging of dildos you mean ?

[SteamyTea]

  On 25/07/2021 at 19:50, pocster said:

Charging of dildos you mean

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Yes, only seen the plug in ones in the USA. But the do jiggle 20% faster.

 

Is this the space flight conversation?