IanR Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I received the unfortunate news that the "hand made British" Kitchen company I'd gone with was to Cease Trading today. Not a company I would have thought would fail, been there a long time and appearing to be very busy, but apparently they've struggle with cash-flow on the trade side of their business. They had my paid-for Kitchen ready to ship next month for installation. It gave me a couple of sleepless nights, but I managed to extract the Kitchen and get it into storage yesterday. There's a couple of bits missing, and a chance I will get those as well. This has given me some anxiety throughout the build, when not being able to avoid paying up front for goods leaves you at risk of a company's collapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragg987 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I sympathise - hopefully you will get the missing bits. I took one of those bullets with solar PV. Company ceased trading and my deposit went, backup insurance denied the claim. Apart from losing the money, it also impacted our schedule and the roofer had to come back to complete as we went with an integrated solution. Learnt my lesson - from that point I tried to pay at least £100 with a credit card. Most companies are fine with that. I had to use that option one other time when my PV diverter company ceased to trade - credit card company refunded the money pretty quickly. The good news is that I recovered 90% of that lost deposit about 1 year later - FCA intervention meant that someone had to underwrite the deposit warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Even more reason to at least pay a small deposit by credit card!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 ...and it's served as a reminder, we did actually pay the initial deposit on CC. I've not got that much spending left, but will be using the CC more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 How did you get the kitchen? Did they offer to let you take it, knowing they were going down the tubes anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 That was supprising, I thought British companies were on the crest of a wave at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Useful reminder @IanR, thanks. Bit like driving past a car accident. Always makes me drive a bit more carefully for a while. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, jack said: How did you get the kitchen? Did they offer to let you take it, knowing they were going down the tubes anyway? It seems to be a bit of a controlled "going down the tubes", ie. they knew the Insolvency Practitioner was turning up today, rather than him turning up unannounced. I went straight up there and made sure my order was all marked up as "Property of ....", While I was then arranging a Luton to go and get it collected, they called me back and offered to deliver it as long as I could take it that day, which of course I did. I must admit they've done their best to achieve the best possible outcome. One loose door fell out the back of the delivery van and damaged the corner, they've taken it back and have promised it will somehow be refinished and returned today. Edited March 17, 2017 by IanR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Shame they're going out of business given their attitude. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, jack said: Shame they're going out of business given their attitude. Exactly what I was thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptoe Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Like @IanR said, the trade side cash flow, I'm only a really small company, and bigger companies late (and even non) payments to me have almost sunk me a few times in the past, I've had payments of over 10K withheld over stupid things, (eg, 1 failed lamp [just the actual bulb] out of maybe 100 fittings) , so I have to replace that lamp [bulb], resubmit invoice, cue another 60days from month end til payment date,!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, Steptoe said: Like @IanR said, the trade side cash flow, The chat from the "workers" is that they need the volume of the trade side to keep the workshops going, and if the don't offer credit they don't win the trade jobs. When they do offer credit, invoices are paid very late, and sometimes not at all. I am gutted for them, their workshops are very capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvinmiddle Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I think the law really needs be made tighter on this. I need to take a company to court over an invoice dispute and the late payment fees and interest you can add don't cover the costs. I think remember reading at the time that in Germany the law is that even a small company can apply to the counts to wind up huge international companies over non payment of invoices, with the result that everything is paid on time - not sure how true that is but if it is that is what we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 The challenges of trying to reclaim modest amounts via the courts is something that annoys me. The small claims procedure is OK in principle, but is flawed because you cannot claim for the costs you incur, in time and effort expended in bringing the case to court. I've used it once, and won, but it was a bit of pyrrhic victory, as I spent tens of hours preparing the case and putting together all the evidence. In recent years I've been working as a part-time expert witness, mainly for insurance companies, and I'm amazed at the number of claims that are settled, not because they are justified, but just because it's cheaper to bung someone a few thousand pounds than it is to defend the claim in court. I get paid either way, but it's frustrating when I've put together evidence to defend a claim, only to find that the company that's "hired"*** me settles out of court. ***"Hired" is not really a good term, but I can't think of a better one. When instructed by an insurer I'm not acting for them, even though they are paying me, I remain an officer of the court, so am bound by law to give impartial evidence. It's an odd situation to be in sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 7 hours ago, JSHarris said: I remain an officer of the court, so am bound by law to give impartial evidence. I don't think most people in the UK have any idea of how seriously expert impartiality is taken by the courts, possibly because they assume we have a "gun for hire" situation along the lines of what they see on US TV shows. I've had bits and pieces to do with very large-scale (tens to hundreds of millions) litigation, and the extent that barristers and solicitors go to with their experts to ensure that absolutely no leading or coaching takes place - or even the possibility of this being alleged - is extraordinary. I'm about to go through this with the people that installed my roof and you're right, it's really frustrating how much effort I need to put in knowing I won't get anything for it and the likelihood they'll pay up when faced with the evidence rather than go to court. To try and offset this, I'm now claiming for every penny I think is reasonable, including a price reduction due to repeated failures to fix the same leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 You're absolutely right. I was given training years ago, by my employer, before giving evidence at a fatal accident enquiry (in Scotland) and that focussed heavily on the impartiality of being an officer of the court. I've carried on since retirement, really just for the intellectual exercise, although I can't deny that the extra income is useful. The worst for me was a double manslaughter case, where the defence barrister asked me to give evidence. I was incredibly grateful that the case was dropped (by the direct intervention of the AG) on the basis that it was not in the public interest to proceed to trial. I was not looking forward to giving evidence at the Central Criminal Court at all; there's a world of difference between a criminal and civil case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptoe Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Being an expert witness is absolutely no different to being a "normal" witness, With the exception of you are qualified in whatever field,. You are simply there to state fact, nothing less, nothing more, as long as you don't state opinion as being fact then there is no issue, Only my experience of having been there on more than one occasion, its no big deal, you turn up, you tell the truth, you go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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