ryder72 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) I need 2 formers, ideally with linear drains, 1700 * 900 and 2000 * 900. Any recommendations? At the moment the only ones I can find are On The Level and Wedi. Impey dont quote make the sizes I need and I am unsure about levelling off the remainder of the shower area and create a leak risk Edited March 12, 2017 by ryder72 Additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Impey Aquadeck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryder72 Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Largest I could find was 1200 * 900. What happens to the remaining 500/800 mm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Is this for an on ground floor or suspended. If on ground as in on top of a concrete floor then can you not hand form it in screed. I have done this a number of times and it is the norm in a lot of other countries, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 That's what I'm doing. Casting to falls to a linear wall drain. I've left a nom 1200 x 1200 hole in the slab but it has the Polypipe tray & A142 mesh there as well as the UFH pipes. Debating whether to remove the Polypipe former here to get a thicker slab. It'll be fun taking that out in pieces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 @Onoff, tell me I've got this wrong..... UFH under the wet area of the shower floor? I kind of wince at the thought of heat near the shower drain. Evaporation...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Biggest ones I've seen are the Marmox Showerlay ones at 1850 x 900. Are you having dual showers as 1300 x 900 is about as far as the water ends up really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: @Onoff, tell me I've got this wrong..... UFH under the wet area of the shower floor? I kind of wince at the thought of heat near the shower drain. Evaporation...... Yep, UFH under the wet area. Wife likes it warm. Hoping as it's a wall drain going in the trap WON'T dry out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just now, recoveringacademic said: indeed. This was discussed I'm sure on the old forum ref the "folly" of doing it or otherwise. I believe a second trap is one idea if it becomes a problem though if sited externally you have the issue of frost etc. I reckon I can get a strip of extra insulation in front of the drain..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Onoff said: This was discussed I'm sure on the old forum ref the "folly" of doing it or otherwise. I believe a second trap is one idea if it becomes a problem though if sited externally you have the issue of frost etc. I reckon I can get a strip of extra insulation in front of the drain..... Exactly. That's what I remember. The insulation might well handle it, though. I'll be interested to see what happens Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: Exactly. That's what I remember. The insulation might well handle it, though. I'll be interested to see what happens Ian Tbh.....the original idea was a standard, round waste in the very corner i.e away from the UFH pipe. Then "someone" posted an all singing, all dancing job he'd done with the wall corner mitred and the shower controls set on that. Made the mistake of letting the missus see it etc, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Here is the former I have made for our wet rooms 1200 x 1200 tray and 600 more of flat tiling (upside down here). Holes all have screw down plugs that will allow me to check the concrete in the slab is everywhere I want it and they will then be closed. The boxes are for the trap and the outfall pipe that runs to the main foul riser. All I have to do is ensure it doesn't float when we pour the concrete on Thursday. No UFH under the first one but there will be in the second one in the second slab where hopefully this former will get a second life - what ever happened to second life? Edited March 12, 2017 by MikeSharp01 Forgot image - doh! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: Here is the former I have made for our wet rooms 1200 x 1200 tray and 600 more of flat tiling (upside down here). Holes all have screw down plugs that will allow me to check the concrete in the slab is everywhere I want it and they will then be closed. The boxes are for the trap and the outfall pipe that runs to the main foul riser. All I have to do is ensure it doesn't float when we pour the concrete on Thursday. No UFH under the first one but there will be in the second one in the second slab where hopefully this former will get a second life - what ever happened to second life? So...are there falls in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Once I lift the former the space for the pipe run across to the foul stack will be in free air until I back fill, once the tray, trap and pipe are in, and the levels do change - so yes, and I have tapered the sides of the former so I can get it out easily as well. It now has a sheet of plastic covering it to help it release as well - belt and braces. Might get a better idea from this, with it in place. Edited March 12, 2017 by MikeSharp01 Improve meaning a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Breaking ground today and your post is therefore particularly welcome. Help me @MikeSharp01 get my head round this, please.... In the photo above, the former shows how the foul drain is connected to the shower drain the holes in the former allow you to check that the concrete has flowed to the level of the bottom of the former and the final level of the concrete will be level with the top of the former The floor make up elsewhere will be (say) 25mm higher than the top of the former It's Monday, and I feel like a Bear-With-A-Small-Brain today. Have I got this right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I have a 1700x800mm shower at the moment with a tray. The water rarely gets past the glass screen which is 1100mm. Assuming the shower head is at the end of the area then the a 1200x900 former should be fine as the water will rarely travel any further. However, Porcelanosa Butech concept shower trays go up to 1800x900 or 1500x1500 Page 143-145 of this brochure http://www.surreytiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/28.-BUTECH-2016_reduced.pdf As for the pipes under the shower area. I'm sure most of us have wives on here and get this kind of requirement. But it makes no sense. As soon as the hot water is running on the tiles they will be warm. Meanwhile for most of the year the heating won't be on so will have no effect on the temperature of the tiles. As the screed is already down of course this is largely academic. The plumbing experts will know better the risk of the trap drying out. I think you might struggle to find a trap that fits in the limited thickness you have there, I would think you need around 80mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 35 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: Breaking ground today and your post is therefore particularly welcome. Help me @MikeSharp01 get my head round this, please.... In the photo above, the former shows how the foul drain is connected to the shower drain the holes in the former allow you to check that the concrete has flowed to the level of the bottom of the former and the final level of the concrete will be level with the top of the former The floor make up elsewhere will be (say) 25mm higher than the top of the former It's Monday, and I feel like a Bear-With-A-Small-Brain today. Have I got this right? I'm struggling to see where the fall is tbh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 29 minutes ago, AliG said: I have a 1700x800mm shower at the moment with a tray. The water rarely gets past the glass screen which is 1100mm. Assuming the shower head is at the end of the area then the a 1200x900 former should be fine as the water will rarely travel any further. However, Porcelanosa Butech concept shower trays go up to 1800x900 or 1500x1500 Page 143-145 of this brochure http://www.surreytiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/28.-BUTECH-2016_reduced.pdf As for the pipes under the shower area. I'm sure most of us have wives on here and get this kind of requirement. But it makes no sense. As soon as the hot water is running on the tiles they will be warm. Meanwhile for most of the year the heating won't be on so will have no effect on the temperature of the tiles. As the screed is already down of course this is largely academic. The plumbing experts will know better the risk of the trap drying out. I think you might struggle to find a trap that fits in the limited thickness you have there, I would think you need around 80mm. Slab is 100mm all over if I lose the Polypipe former. Geberit wall drain should fit aok. "We" did discuss running the UFH up the walls in this area too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said: In the photo above, the former shows how the foul drain is connected to the shower drain the holes in the former allow you to check that the concrete has flowed to the level of the bottom of the former and the final level of the concrete will be level with the top of the former The floor make up elsewhere will be (say) 25mm higher than the top of the former It's Monday, and I feel like a Bear-With-A-Small-Brain today. Have I got this right? Hi Ian @recoveringacademic. The former is designed to be the full size of the wet room (1200 x 1600). The foul drain stack is, will be, connected to the shower trap by a short length of 40mm pipe on a slight - but correct, fall - the former creates a cavity in the slab for this to run through. As you say the holes in the former allow me to ensure the concrete is fully under the former then I close them up and Fill around the former to the top of the former which is flush with the finished (we are having a polished concrete floor) concrete surface so there will be no floor make up in our case. Where the shower tray goes the former is 42mm thick the shower tray unit, an AKW component (1200 x 1200), is 20mm thick leaving me 22mm for tiling on the tray to the trap unit which has a fall built into its 20mm depth. The remainder of the former is 22mm thick to provide a pocket for the tiles that will be 'on the flat' in the rest of the wet room. The wet room sole plate for the walls sits directly onto the polished surface around the pocket in the slab created by the former. Hope that helps, I have a section drawing back at base I can paste up to show you if you need more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 minute ago, MikeSharp01 said: [...] Hope that helps, I have a section drawing back at base I can paste up to show you if you need more. That'd be so kind, Mike. Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Onoff said: I'm struggling to see where the fall is tbh! There is no fall in the former as such because it creates a groove in the slab into which the outflow pipe will drop when the tray, with its associated trap is lowered into the pocket created by the former. I can then backfill under the shower tray with concrete if I wish around the outflow pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Ahhhh, right, click. You are creating a space in which to insert a ready made shower tray. Not creating a shower tray out of the concrete.... Told you I feel like a Bear-With-A-Small-Brain today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: There is no fall in the former as such because it creates a groove in the slab into which the outflow pipe will drop when the tray, with its associated trap is lowered into the pocket created by the former. I can then backfill under the shower tray with concrete if I wish around the outflow pipe. Got it! Falls in the tray! Edited March 13, 2017 by Onoff Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldwidewebs Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I've just bought some Dukkaboard ones from here: http://www.tilingsuppliesdirect.co.uk/product/dukkaboard-channel-drain-shower-tray I think they go up to 1650 x 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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