When will it end?

[Adsibob]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

So draw a pan of water from your boiling water tap then.

Yeah, that’s the plan. 

[Adsibob]

Just thought I’d provide an update, in case it alleviate my impending sense of doom. The original end date is in two days’ time. The extended end date is in a months’ time. We will miss both by several months I think.

I’ve been lucky enough to have the last two weeks off on holiday and even managed to get far away from the UK. Very nice holiday indeed, but now really struggling with a severe case of post holiday blues which is mainly driven by having to return to the building site that is my house. The top floor loft conversion structure has now been built and should be water right by the time it is tiled and windows are in, which will hopefully be mid Sept. Then all the windows (top floor, middle and ground) need to be sealed into frames (currently they are in position, but it’s not airtight or water tight). And then still have so much more to do. All the plumbing and heating and electrics still to be done (and I really mean all) MVHR plus 3.5 bathrooms still need to be installed. All the tiling and all the decorating still to do.  Still have the driveway to do. 
It just feels like it will never end. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Adsibob

[Marvin]

I would be looking at the alternative ways to survive the situation. 

 

With what is going on, from what I understand, you have 2 problems.

You need to move in and the build is behind schedule.

 

In your circumstance I would be looking at how to survive what realistically is going to be a delay in completion and prepare ahead for it. I would avoid all unnecessary personal expenditure, see if I can stay with friends, relatives, consider at what stage I would be prepared to move in to a partially completed home and so on.

 

None of this is fun, but it's not going to go away.

 

Again, I would be writing an extensive list of all the items that are left to do, and then ask the people on Buildhub for an estimate of how long each one could take, and then you will have a more realistic picture of where your going. Yes some can be worked on in unison but not too many. 

 

I would be creating a critical path of the works which would be a good indicator of how far to go. I would do it in reverse. As an example:

 

Before furniture in it was the carpets, before that, decoration, before that electrical second fix, before that plumbing second fix, before that kitchen and bathrooms, before that plastering, before that all services, 

and so on.

 

This list also gives you a time line and you can follow the progress. 

 

I think the next milestone for your build is to be watertight, and I would ignore driveway at present.

 

As a side issue the electric car charging at home: Our charger which is about a 3kw one basically charges at a rate of about 14 miles for every hour of charging. You can have a charger that will do about 7 times quicker recharging but will use 22kw

 

Good luck

 

M

[ToughButterCup]

4 hours ago, Adsibob said:

...
It just feels like it will never end. 

 

Just like seasickness. It's never going to end is it....But it does.

 

4 years ago we said we'd be going mad if we hadn't finished by now. We're not mad - yet.

 

4 years ago we didn't know which fookoops were waiting just out of sight.

4 years ago we were really down in the dumps. Just like you. 

 

Self building is a test, one in  which you (almost) can't say sod this for a game and walk off into the sunset.

 

So the only alternative is to learn to enjoy the moment. I have still got to work hard at that every single day. Many days I don't manage it. But when I do, I finish the day with a grin.

 

And so will you. Go outside, look at what you have achieved and give yourself a pat on the back.

[SteamyTea]

14 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Just like seasickness. It's never going to end is it....But it does.

Not if you have Mal de debarquement.

[Triassic]

On 29/06/2021 at 20:20, Adsibob said:

anyone else starting to lose my patience with suppliers using Covid as an excuse? In 2022 will people still be using the pandemic as an excuse? What about 2023? At some point businesses need to adapt.

Brexit !
 

Went to the BM for a single bag of cement, four merchants and 2 hours later I had my bag of cement. The problem, lorry driver shortage, so I’m told the the BM.

 

Roofer was telling me, he’s just quoted for a job and the tiles the customer wants are a 26 week lead time.

 

I feel your pain, I was in a similar place a few years ago. I ended up finishing off the project myself, the reality is the contract is worthless, in my case the builder went bust and reincarnated himself a few weeks later with the same company name with NW added to the end of it.

 

All you can do is keep positive, manage by walking about, jolly the team along, make them a brew, take them a Greggs and try to keep them on your side. We all want to work for the nice guy.

 

ps. Labour is in short supply round here. Had a stone mason look at a job, can’t start for at least two years as he’s fully booked. Talked to another stone mason, a friend of a friend to check is this is right, yes! He’s also fully booked to the extent he’s removed his web site and no longer answers the phone to numbers he doesn’t recognise.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Triassic
Typo

[markc]

I am also tired of hearing COVID and brexit as excuses for inflated prices and supply shortages.

Yes interest rates are stupidly low, yes there is far too much money around.

I import construction machinery from Italy and we can now sell our machines at prices less than two years ago.

[Triassic]

It’s a shortage of skilled labour here. Locals have been priced out by big spending city evacuees. lots of staff wanted signs in hotels, shops and in builders merchants. Many here blame Brexit, a lot of staff left (not helped by tourists asking them why they were still here!) and COVID was the last straw.

 

I had a company fitting cladding here a few weeks ago. The job stopped and was told that the team doing the job had all quit, as they could get jobs local to them paying more and save the hour each way in travel time. In the end the company persuaded a couple of ex employees, including the bosses dad, out of retirement to complete the job.

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Triassic said:

had a company fitting cladding here a few weeks ago. The job stopped and was told that the team doing the job had all quit, as they could get jobs local to them paying more and save the hour each way in travel time

The drive down on prices/wages is a common problem. 

Business should choose their target market more carefully. I would rather sell to someone that can easily afford my prices, rather than one that will struggle to pay.

No business owes customers a bargain.

[Triassic]

I think his problem is the labour shortage round here, staff are being phoned up and offered golden hello deals. A pub recently had their head chef poached, he was offered £5,000 to move!

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Triassic said:

I think his problem is the labour shortage round here, staff are being phoned up and offered golden hello deals. A pub recently had their head chef poached, he was offered £5,000 to move!

He can have my second chef for 5k.

[Adsibob]

9 hours ago, Triassic said:

the reality is the contract is worthless, in my case the builder went bust and reincarnated himself a few weeks later with the same company name with NW added to the end of it.

If the old company transferred anything to the new company, it might be caught by the section 423 of the insolvency act 1986. Or if there was a pre-pack and administration of the old company before or at the same time as the transfer of assets to the new company, in addition to section 423, there might be a breach of Statement of Insolvency Practice 16: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statements-of-insolvency-practice-16-sip-16

ie just because the party you contract with us wound down/goes “bust” doesn’t mean you don’t have a legal remedy.

[Triassic]

1 hour ago, Adsibob said:

goes “bust” doesn’t mean you don’t have a legal remedy.

It’s a cost / benefit judgment. In our case the legal costs probably outweighed the loss.

[Adsibob]

4 hours ago, Triassic said:

It’s a cost / benefit judgment. In our case the legal costs probably outweighed the loss.

True in many cases. But it depends. For example, if you claim is big enough or complex enough to merit being allocated to the multitrack, there is fairly decent Costa recovery whereby the winner of the law suit has most of their reasonable costs paid by the loser.

[Marvin]

9 hours ago, Adsibob said:

True in many cases. But it depends. For example, if you claim is big enough or complex enough to merit being allocated to the multitrack, there is fairly decent Costa recovery whereby the winner of the law suit has most of their reasonable costs paid by the loser.

All the time risking more and more on a possible outcome. No thank you.

[Marvin]

13 hours ago, Triassic said:

It’s a cost / benefit judgment. In our case the legal costs probably outweighed the loss.

Unless the claim is easily under 10k or over 60k and you have 120k to take the risk, or it's a slam dunk and even then good luck.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Marvin

[Adsibob]

Thought I'd post another update: I think we are on track to be fully water proof - even against horizontal rain, by mid september, although window company which still needs to fit 3 windows at loft level are messing me about.

Octopus energy is the latest cause for delay and stress. We need to move a single phase connection and meter. UK Power Networks have been pretty good about the former, willing to do it on 12 working days' notice now that we've agreed a scope of works and EXTORTIONATE price - but they won't touch the meter. Apparently that is the property of the supplier. Such bollox. Anyway, earliest Octopus can do is 7 October and as it all has to happen on the same day, I need to delay UK Power Networks until then.

Still so much to do.  I won't list it but we are far far off. Builder gave me a new end date of 18 December. I asked him how confident he was of hitting it and he replied: "doubtful, very doubtful".

[DragsterDriver]

On 29/06/2021 at 20:20, Adsibob said:

Everyone’s feedback is helpful/interesting, but I feel I need to clarify a few points:

 

1) I have not and do not wish to fall out with my builder. I have given him the benefit of the doubt on many points and met all my side of the bargain, paying all of his invoices on time and buying a lot of supplies and ensuring they are on site when he wanted them, to the extent that I went with a £3,500 more expensive window supply contract to ensure windows were installed by the time my builder wanted them installed.

 

2) I am not paying peanuts. The contract is for a lot of money, even for London standards. I am well paid in my job, but this project is still costing me about 4 times my household’s gross annual salary. (I am already mortgaged to the max with 32 years left to pay. I’m only in my 40s.) There were cheaper options available, but I stayed clear. The point is this is a massive financial commitment for us and I think our builder will be getting a v. good income out of this project. 

 

3) I have not scrimped on professional fees. So far, I have spent about £5k on an SE, £2k on a specialist surveyor to design certain bespoke parts of the build, and about £10k on architectural and project management fees. I’m also forking out money for CVC to design the MVHR. There are incredibly detailed construction drawings, plumbing plans, electrical schematics, build ups, etc. 

 

4) I think my biggest gripe with the builder is the lack of communication. We have at least one meeting a week, often two. I try to pop in at least a third time each week. I am doing the bulk of the project management, but the architect is helping me, so the architect also attends twice a week. Only today did we find out that a cause of delay has been the posi joists. The posi spec changed about 3 months ago (we were going to do only one floor with posis, but then decided to go with two on CVC’s recommendation). At that point, it would have been helpful to know that posis were in short supply or that making this change might delay us as maybe we could have stuck to my original instinct which was that posis only needed for first floor and not second floor. Posis due to be delivered a couple of weeks ago, not coming till next week - apparently. Still doesn’t  explain the extent of delays, but sh!t happens and I will accept it. It’s just rather stressful rushing, and at times paying extra, quite a lot extra, to get things the builder says he needs urgently only for the to sit on site for several weeks after arrival, sometimes months.

 

5) I am generally a good communicator, but I find it difficult to communicate with the builder as he gets quite defensive. I’ve resorted to prefacing everything I say with “I know this isn’t your fault,…” to try and get him to down his guard. 
 

6) I had a very good experience with another builder some years ago on a big project, albeit one significantly simpler and cheaper than this one. We are still in touch and I wanted him to do this job, but timings didn’t work out. He was actually cheaper. I found him incredibly easy to work with and very easy going with me, whilst able to run a tight ship via his excellent foreman. Nothing seemed to stress either of them out, and they were a pleasure to work with, so whilst I am not in the trade, I do think I have some experience (this is our third project).

 

7) Is anyone else starting to lose my patience with suppliers using Covid as an excuse? In 2022 will people still be using the pandemic as an excuse? What about 2023? At some point businesses need to adapt.

 

 Sorry to pick out one point of a large situation:

 

my usual truss supplier is on 12 weeks for posijoists- I know the fella well and have been using him years, that’s him doing them on a weekend as a favour. 
 

however- minera in Wales can knock them out in a week, maybe 20% extra cost but that’s something I’m having to swallow  

 

 

 

in short- most other builders I know aren’t shopping suppliers enough. When ‘their guy’ says 3 months it’s gospel. 

[WWilts]

On 11/09/2021 at 00:01, Adsibob said:

cause for delay and stress

Sympathies.

 

We gave up on trying to get everything running neatly and on time. For us it helps to tackle whatever is do-able on our list and pretend that everything else will sort itself out. Sometimes does too. 

Can't be fun paying massive rents during delay upon delay. But in the worst case scenario of delays, something less than a fight with the builder might help mitigate losses. Downsizing or staying with relatives/friends or whatever is do-able. You would know the amount of hardship that you find tolerable.

Good luck. You deserve it.

[Adsibob]

It’s been a while since I posted, so thought I’d update you/seek more advice/empathy:

in my last post I mentioned that in the second week of September my builder gave me a new end date of 18 Dec, but that he advertised it was actually doubtful whether he would make it. When I asked why, he said “lead times”. Note he did not mention labour supply shortages, and as far as I can see this has not been an issue for him; with the exception of September when one of his guys returned about 10 dates late from his summer break, all of his time have pretty much been on site since January and at the beginning they even had a few extra guys doing demolition work.

 

I am actually responsible for supplying almost all supplies to site. I did it this way because on my last build our builder went bust mid way through - this way I have title to the goods and can also pay by credit card. As I have been really organised, apart from a slight shortage of wood fibre which we experienced and a long delay in getting roof tiles, lead times haven’t held us back. Also, when he told me in Sept that he wasn’t confident about making the new end date because of lead times, I was a little confused because he isn’t really responsible for ordering that much more. The only thing he still has to buy was the UFH gear, including Cellecta XFLO boards, some 6mm rubber matting, plasterboards and plaster and some soundproofing stuff and insulation. I appreciate that many of those things are in short supply but that aspect of the spec hasn’t changed since the outset of the job, the contract for which we signed in December. The property is large, we have been water tight for a month now, and there are three floors. Although screed had to go down on the ground floor a couple of weeks ago, plenty of space on the upper floors to store stuff if necessary.

 

Anyway, 5.5 weeks after the 18 December finish date and the new schedule was given to me, I can see we are already 2-3 weeks behind on this new date. The original date was 28 Aug. The second date was end of September. The 18 December date is clearly PIR in the sky.

 

Although the structural work, loft and subfloors are very much done now, and UKPN and Octopus have moved our supply to where we needed it, we still have to:

- install UFH on two upper floors

- install boiler, UVC and commission UFH heating and boiler

- plasterboard and skim all the stud wall and ceilings

- do ALL the electrics

- do ALL the plumbing

- install and tile 3.5 bathrooms

- install rather large kitchen

- finish the patio

- lay new hard standing and pave driveway

- finish external drainage which is only partly done

- lay floor finishes

- paint walls (though  about half will be left nude as we are using decorative plaster on those).

 

That is about 12 items. How long can it take for a team of 5 fairly hardworking guys to finish all that? Is 12 weeks realistic? Allowing two weeks off for XMAS would take us to around 26th Jan, which is about 5 weeks later than his dubious 18 Dec date. 
 

There are a few things he is not doing and which other third party contractors are doing, like the floor finish in most of the ground floor, the staircase installation, the kitchen cupboard doors, various other joinery items and the kitchen worktops, which takes some pressure off him, but I’m seriously concerned this project is going to spillover into the spring.

 

We were recently told by our landlords (who also happen to be my inlaws) that we need to vacate the property we are living in at the moment before the end of November, so it’s all getting rather ridiculous.

 

oh and did I mention we are £70k over budget, which is £40k over our £30k contingency? 
 

What a mess…

 

[epsilonGreedy]

6 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

That is about 12 items. How long can it take for a team of 5 fairly hardworking guys to finish all that? Is 12 weeks realistic?

 

 

Half of the items would typically involve bringing in other trades. Is this 5 man team multi talented?

 

It sounds as though you are weather tight with little more than internal stud work? If so you are probably 65% done.

 

Is the stairs in? Guttering? If water is poured down an internal soil pipe upstand where does it go?

 

Given the budget overrun and the accommodation crisis is it time to consider moving into a part complete home?

[Adsibob]

16 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

Is this 5 man team multi talented?

I should clarify that the team of 5 will extend to 7 when plumbing/boiler and electrics eventually happens, in that there is a separate gas engineer/plumber and a separate sparky. But the core team of 5 have done everything so far including tiling the roof, building a loft conversion and two story extension, GRP and some stud work and v. basic plumbing. E.g. they laid the UFH and installed and pressurised the UFH pipes on the ground floor, and did a very nice job of it:

 

as for guttering - some bespoke gutters, like for the back extension - have gone in. And the soil pipes do lead to the correct manholes, but all the drainage passages are still exposed and lots of gutters and drainpipes still to be done.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Adsibob

[Adsibob]

So just to update everyone: it still hasn’t ended.

Almost all the stud walls are now up, quite a lot of plasterboard has gone up, and first fix electrics is 75% done. Apart from laying the ufh pipes on the ground floor, Plumbing hasn’t started yet, though I’m told it is starting next week.

Thames Water are shafting me, playing silly games with dates. Paid the extortion money to get better pressure 2 months ago, still haven’t heard anything re dates.

MVHR unit was installed today, apparently. Not seen it yet.

It still feels like there is so much to do!

Definitely won’t be in by Xmas at this rate.

[SteamyTea]

Have you read the work of John Richard Gott III.

He claims to know when things will end.

 

Gotts_Doomsday_Argument.pdf

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Have you read the work of John Richard Gott III.

He claims to know when things will end.

 

Gotts_Doomsday_Argument.pdf 96.73 kB · 2 downloads

Well that's done my head in....