Proposed garage (car maintenance) in the field opposite my house

[joe90]

37 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Farmers would not build a solar farm on productive land, it is just not financially viable.

oh I don’t know, this farms had a pedigree bread herd fir generations and been a successful farm fir that time, only now he wants to emigrate to Canada, nice little earner with no input. 
 

41 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Pretty ropey land then.

quote from gov.uk........sub grade 3a - good quality agricultural land 

[Roundtuit]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

If it’s used by a farmer, as you said, it will leave other agricultural land fir growing/grazing/husbandry, that’s why it’s called agricultural ! We already import too much food IMO.

Land is land; we describe it by its current use, but that's just a temporary convenience.  Where most of us live was once 'agricultural', or 'woodland' or something other than housing.  I wouldn't want an industrial unit built opposite me,  but to object you need to find valid planning reasons surely?

 

I can only really speak for fresh produce, but we only import what we can't grow economically viably in the UK. I imagine the laws of economics apply to other agricultural outputs too.

[Temp]

On 08/04/2021 at 21:16, newhome said:

There are numerous complaints from the village about the current business. It's why they want it gone. They have said that noise shouldn't be a concern as there is already road noise here

 

Point out that road/traffic noise is very different to the noise of air powered impact tools?

[AliG]

The community council have helped you out in a way.

 

If they are supporting it as the garage is ugly and they don't want to see it then visual amenity is a valid reason to object, i.e. it is ugly. I would take pictures of the current situation and use them in the objection.

 

Is there enough parking for customers in the new area? Parking, traffic and road safety are valid objections.

 

Noise and disturbance is a valid objection, as said tools are much noisier than traffic. What hours do they work? Again is this being complained about at the moment?

 

How is the land classified in the local plan?

 

The community council round here objected to my house and my parents'. Their objection to ours included it was the biggest house built in the area in over 50 years. They are a law unto themselves, often not objecting to other houses that breach local planning guidelines. I have wanted to have a go at them for a while. If your community council wants to move a nuisance from one part of the area to annoy people somewhere else, what exactly is their argument? No doubt someone on the council or a mate lives near the garage. I would actually ask them to withdraw their support as I suspect it is very biased.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by AliG

[newhome]

3 hours ago, Temp said:

Point out that road/traffic noise is very different to the noise of air powered impact tools?

 

Thanks. I am going to state something similar to that and I will also say that whilst there is road noise here it also means that there is more than enough noise here already so we shouldn't be subjected to any more noise. The way that the supporting statement reads is that as there is road noise any further noise shouldn't be a problem. 

 

[newhome]

2 hours ago, AliG said:

If they are supporting it as the garage is ugly and they don't want to see it then visual amenity is a valid reason to object, i.e. it is ugly. I would take pictures of the current situation and use them in the objection.

 

I am going to go and take photos tomorrow to use in my objection. It is ugly currently which is one reason why the council want it gone. It is also right at the entrance to the village and it creates a very poor impression with an ugly building and cars dumped everywhere on the verges, pavements and roads. 

 

3 hours ago, AliG said:

Is there enough parking for customers in the new area? Parking, traffic and road safety are valid objections.

 

 

They have applied for 32 car parking spaces and additional space for vans and trucks. The area being used is 6000 m2 so huge compared to what they have now. Surely a 6000 m2 operation isn't just a small local business expanding, it's a large operation. 6000 m2 is pretty large surely? Most local car maintenance places in commercial areas aren't as large as that surely? 

 

3 hours ago, AliG said:

Noise and disturbance is a valid objection, as said tools are much noisier than traffic. What hours do they work? Again is this being complained about at the moment?

 

I'm not sure whether the noise is complained about currently as the Community Council haven't said. They have just said that there are numerous complaints. I am definitely going to complain about potential noise from tools. 

 

It doesn't state the hours of operation but it seems that they do a 24 hour recovery service

 

From the planning application:

 

Quote

 

The business provides the following services

• Car and Van MOT & Servicing

• General car repairs

• Self-drive car and van hire

• 24/7 callout to repairs and recovery

 

The business also holds a contract with Police Scotland to recover vehicles that are involved in accidents and / or criminal activity. It is essential that these vehicles be kept in a secure location.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, AliG said:

How is the land classified in the local plan?

 

 

It's outside the settlement boundary and the land is currently classified as agricultural. The garage owner has owned the land for some years and in the last few years has stopped even mowing the field and he now claims that it's not suitable for agriculture. That is clearly nonsense as it could easily be used for growing crops or grazing sheep like many of the fields nearby. This is what they have said in respect of planning 

 

Quote

Compliance With Planning Policies

 

ED7 (Business Development in the Countryside)

 

• We have demonstrated above that the proposed business cannot be accommodated within the Settlement boundary.

• There are social and economic benefits in re-siting the business from its village location.

• There is an operational need to re-locate to a more suitable site within the locality.

• The potential expansion of the business is a job-generating development, PMD4 allows development out with the boundary, where there is an economic justification under Policy ED7. It goes without saying that there is economic justification for the development of this long-established and thriving business.

 

 

3 hours ago, AliG said:

If your community council wants to move a nuisance from one part of the area to annoy people somewhere else, what exactly is their argument? No doubt someone on the council or a mate lives near the garage. I would actually ask them to withdraw their support as I suspect it is very biased.

 

Everything the community council does is biased. They made numerous objections to the houses being built here due to the perceived danger of the road. My next door neighbour was even asked not to leave his bins outside his house as it was apparently too dangerous, yet they are claiming that it's fine to have customers and recovery vehicles using the access road almost opposite the first house. I asked the council secretary when it was decided that they were supportive of the new development as claimed in the planning application, and she said that they were supportive of the business being moved elsewhere but hadn't actually gone as far as saying that they were supportive of the new location as she knows that this just moves the problem elsewhere. I guess we will see what happens. I spoke to my neighbour the other side in the listed cottage. He isn't supportive of the development either and will object. He is also worried that using part of the field for this purpose will set a precedent and further applications for other businesses on the field may follow. 

 

[dpmiller]

recovery services with government contracts certainly do need secure storage.

[newhome]

56 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

recovery services with government contracts certainly do need secure storage.

They have secure storage already, not in the village. 

[AliG]

On 08/04/2021 at 20:24, newhome said:

The supporting statement says that the community council has indicated that it is supportive of the proposal.

 

6 hours ago, newhome said:

I asked the council secretary when it was decided that they were supportive of the new development as claimed in the planning application, and she said that they were supportive of the business being moved elsewhere but hadn't actually gone as far as saying that they were supportive of the new location as she knows that this just moves the problem elsewhere.

 

Is the supporting statement a lie then? Supporting them moving away is meaningless in planning terms. They don't need planning permission to move, they need permission for the new premises. If the CC just supports that they go away that is not the same at all as supporting the new development.

 

On 08/04/2021 at 20:24, newhome said:

The supporting statement also notes that further to a pre-application assessment the placement of the building has been moved slightly to screen the site from the cemetery. The small village cemetery is next to the allotments.

 

Did this cause it to be moved closer to you? Did the council actually encourage them to move closer to living people to benefit dead people?

[AliG]

I had a look around and found the planning application.

 

I can see why you would want to object, but in truth I doubt it will have much of an impact on you.

 

Considering the proximity of the A1 and railway line, I doubt objections re noise will be entertained.

 

From a planning perspective, the council will argue that moving an operation from somewhere where they park cars all over the place on the road to somewhere where they have all the cars in a compound is an improvement overall. It isn't for you, but from the council's perspective it would be better. Thus complaints re the current parking position will not necessarily help, if anything they may be supportive of the new application.

 

But considering the parking situation, it may be worthwhile to ask for yellow lines to be placed to stop cars being parked outside the development, pointing to current issues. I suspect this is one of your main worries, that the business gets bigger and cars start to spill out onto the road.

 

I would also ask that they screen planting on the side of the site towards your house is at least 2M high.

 

Looking at the site history they have a lapsed permission to build even closer to your house in 2007 and they were refused permission to build where they now propose to build in 2005. I think they are actually using your house as an argument to go back to the 2005 position. I would be worried that they go back to the 2007 position if they are turned down here.

 

However, understanding that you would rather not have it near to your house, I would try and find out why it was refused at planning and appeal in 2005. My suspicion is that it was because it was next to the cemetery and it looks like the community council may have objected at the time and it may be worth asking what has changed. They might say that the business is larger and more of a nuisance now so it is the lesser of two evils.

 

The piece of land is surely too small for agricultural use so I doubt that objection works either.

Edited April 11, 2021 by AliG

[ToughButterCup]

Might an objection on the grounds that the proposed use greatly increases the risk of pollution be a relevant argument?  GCN - laden ponds anywhere nearby?

 

 

I suppose  planners could reduce that risk through appropriate  - if expensive  - conditions ...

[newhome]

4 hours ago, AliG said:

But considering the parking situation, it may be worthwhile to ask for yellow lines to be placed to stop cars being parked outside the development, pointing to current issues. I suspect this is one of your main worries, that the business gets bigger and cars start to spill out onto the road.

Yes I think I could ask for that maybe but the small side road off which the entrance is proposed also has a very small car parking area for those using the cemetery and the allotments. I guess one of the objections by the council is that the car parking area could be used for overspill from the business. It’s a pity that there are no parking restrictions on the verge and along the road where the existing business is really. 
 

4 hours ago, AliG said:

I would also ask that they screen planting on the side of the site towards your house is at least 2M high.

Yes definitely I will be asking for that, and also that this is done early in the development otherwise we will be waiting years for it to have any effect? 
 

4 hours ago, AliG said:

Looking at the site history they have a lapsed permission to build even closer to your house in 2007 and they were refused permission to build where they now propose to build in 2005. I think they are actually using your house as an argument to go back to the 2005 position. I would be worried that they go back to the 2007 position if they are turned down here.

Yes permission was refused in 2005 because of the proximity to the cemetery. Refused on appeal too. Outline PP was granted in a position even nearer the houses (before the 2 new houses were built here). As you say that would be an even worse position for us. It would also be a more expensive option for the owner as the road level is much higher than the field at the site of the proposed entrance. Also the outline planning was granted on the basis that there was an existing entrance onto the field at that location. There isn’t, and the only entrance there is the entrance to my drive directly opposite so that was a lie in the application. There was a fairly spectacular road accident between a supermarket delivery van and a tractor towing a trailer of muck at that point a few years ago so there is a genuine road safety issue that could be raised in any objection. It really is not safe to place a new entrance along the main road into the village. 
 

4 hours ago, AliG said:

The piece of land is surely too small for agricultural use so I doubt that objection works either.

It’s a pretty big field. Easily big enough to graze sheep and much bigger than either of the 2 sheep fields nearest to it across the road. 
 

If it has to be built it is the least worse place for it to be built, and you’re right we definitely don’t want it nearer. I’m not clear why it has to be in the village however as surely a business of this size no longer belongs in any village? It’s long past the era of servicing the cars for village folk, and the argument that it is difficult for local people to access locations further afield doesn’t work as by the very nature of the business all customers have vehicles already. 

[newhome]

2 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

Might an objection on the grounds that the proposed use greatly increases the risk of pollution be a relevant argument?  GCN - laden ponds anywhere nearby?

I’m not sure if this would work as unfortunately there are no ponds anywhere round there. I imagine there would be strict conditions for disposing of oil and other potential contaminants? 

[Marvin]

Various topics you may wish to consider:

Risk of land contamination: oil leaks, asbestos from brake pads,

Noise pollution. Foul drain overload. Hazardous business waste. Access road suitable for fire engine. Wildlife endangerment. Tree removal. Not in keeping. Invasive plant species. Bats. Slow worms, badgers, great crested newts, 

Check the local council planning core strategy which give the planning policy aims. Check for other commercial planning applications that have come up in your area.

 

[Marvin]

Any otters, dormice,  invertebrates,  natterjack toads, reptiles, water voles, or white clawed crayfish on or nearby the site?

Site of an old mine, tannery, railway sidings?

Suggestion of a better local site,  

Too near a river, watercourses, historic monuments or landmines.

If none of these relate then your struggling....

[Marvin]

Have any trees on or adjacent got TPO's?

Is it on a flood plain, is the land sloping towards the existing houses? Any uk protect plant species? Ancient woodland? Do migrating birds regularly use the land? ( I'm begging to clutch at straws here) will existing hedging be effected? Erm... someone help me out!

[Onoff]

@newhome, I feel your pain to some extent. The old stables down't valley a couple of hundred yards from me is to become a printing works. Plans look bloody awful considering the setting here, like a modern light industrial unit from what was the yellow stock brick building. How the Hell the single track road is meant to handle delivery trucks I don't know. I can see them getting stuck in the snow.

 

So much for it being an AONB! ?

Edited May 3, 2021 by Onoff

[newhome]

The update is that the owner has applied to build a bungalow in front of the proposed garage. Not sure how that will be perceived by the council as it’s outside the settlement boundary and there are already sites designated for housing within the settlement boundary that are available. The rationale includes security for the garage. I have objected to the garage but won’t be objecting to the proposed dwelling. I have no issue with houses being built on the land TBH but the garage will be the eyesore that it is in the village already. Worse probably as he will have much more room at his disposal to dump wrecks. The people in the village can’t wait to see the back of it of course so there have been several villagers supporting the proposal.