ESP Ecocent Air to Water Heat Pump inside?

[ashthekid]

I’ve recently discovered this model of air-to-water heat pump that doesn’t need to be located outside! ESP Ecocent 300l.

Has anyone ever used this brand or type of heat pump?

I was thinking I had to locate my standard air source heat pump outside and approx 25m away from the property which I have heard a couple of negative reasons why that would be a bad idea so am very interested to hear whether an inside one would work as well and efficiently. What are the comparables to an outside air source heat pump?

[DamonHD]

1) At least some of the Ecocents extract heat from the house air to make DHW, which is fine if your house is too warm...

 

2) It is likely to be noisy.

 

Don't know about this particular one, but I have considered an Ecocent in the past.

 

Rgds

 

Damon

[ashthekid]

I can’t find much online in terms of reviews. 
Only one YouTube video showing issues with corrosion in the tank part at the bottom and then of course sourcing parts as I believe you can only get from China. apparently all close proximity pipework has to be in stainless steel rather than copper to protect against any reaction inside the tank.
That was a few years ago now so perhaps they have improved the units since then. 

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, ashthekid said:

Has anyone ever used this brand or type of heat pump?

There's a similar type by Joule, don't know if it's a copy or not.

[ashthekid]

ESP (EarthSavingProducts) seem to put up a good show on their website and awards etc. 
 

How would this type of system compare to your standard outdoor air source heat pump in terms of running costs and efficiency?

(That’s providing hot water and underfloor heating)

[ProDave]

These are Exhaust Air Heat Pumps.  they work as part of a whole house ventilation system and extract heat from the exhausted air.  I don't think this will heat a whole house.

 

I have heard lots of things about corrosion in some makes and know of one that was fitted to a new house being removed when not very old and replaced by a normal ASHP with an outside unit.

[pdf27]

15 minutes ago, ProDave said:

These are Exhaust Air Heat Pumps.  they work as part of a whole house ventilation system and extract heat from the exhausted air.  I don't think this will heat a whole house.

 

I have heard lots of things about corrosion in some makes and know of one that was fitted to a new house being removed when not very old and replaced by a normal ASHP with an outside unit.

Isn't that one of the ones that only does the hot water? It looks exactly like what @Thedreamer has fitted:

 

[Thedreamer]

The one in the original post by @ashthekid is an ecocent as you can see ESP on it.

 

Mine is the same technology but is made by Joule,  the exhaust heat pump is similar but was told by the plumber and house designer it was a better quality cylinder.

 

I have set mine up as MEV system and it's pull air from the utility room, ensuite and bathroom. Although it is drawing heat from house it's not noticeable.

 

You can set-up them up to draw from the outside, but it is less efficient. 

 

The cylinder definitely won't heat your house mine is just for hot water. My approach was to insulate enough not to need  radiators or underfloor heating. I heat our house in the winter evenings with a wood stove surrounded by concrete blocks. I have free wood therefore this approach is very cheap for me. 

 

For the noise, the cylinder sits in a cupboard in the utility room and you hear virtually no noise in the kitchen and is no louder than a normal fridge/freezer when in the utility room.

 

These systems don't work for everybody, my property is well insulated new self build.

[ashthekid]

So there are brands like Joule and ESP that do these Exhaust Source Heat Pumps.

Seeing as I was looking into a small MVHR to extract from 4 bathrooms this could be a good option for hot water and perhaps a smaller outdoor standard split system Air Source Heat Pump to provide the underfloor heating. 
 

Could an Exhaust Source Heat Pump(ESP or Joule) work efficiently to extract from those 4 bathrooms? And could the results at cool air be reused into a couple of other rooms that have no natural ventilation(e.g. cinema room)?

[Thedreamer]

21 minutes ago, ashthekid said:

So there are brands like Joule and ESP that do these Exhaust Source Heat Pumps.

 

Yes

 

21 minutes ago, ashthekid said:

Could an Exhaust Source Heat Pump(ESP or Joule) work efficiently to extract from those 4 bathrooms?

 

 

Yes that should work. The further away the less extraction and also if you have bends etc.

 

I worked out the most efficient way to work for us and that's the system coming on during the morning and evening. It pretty rare for us to have a showers say at middle of day then I would open a window for ventilation.

 

Our tank also has a dual immerser heater but never used that just rely on the heat pump.

 

21 minutes ago, ashthekid said:

And could the results at cool air be reused into a couple of other rooms that have no natural ventilation(e.g. cinema room)?

 

Yes, I believe this could be done, but it's going to be cold air, might not be ideal for all of the year. Some form of ventilation splitter could be useful, for the summer into the house and in the winter sending it outside. 

 

[Gone West]

12 hours ago, ashthekid said:

So there are brands like Joule and ESP that do these Exhaust Source Heat Pumps.

I have a Genvex Combi 185L which is a ventilation system with a built in EASHP which heats my DHW and provides warm air which supplements the normal heating provided by electric towel rails in the bathrooms. The towel rails keep the bathrooms at around 24C and the ventilation system transfers the heat around the house. This type of system only works for space heating because the house is very highly insulated and airtight.

[Jymmm]

I have an Ecocent 300l,

 

happy to answer any questions you may have

[ashthekid]

Any problems with it or regrets on the installation of it?

[Jymmm]

No issues that I’ve encountered yet.

I’m at the first year service point so plan to inspect/change the anode.

Trying to get through to ESP to purchase a spare is fairly painful.

Has anyone managed to source their own?

[Susie]

On 26/03/2021 at 11:33, Jymmm said:

No issues that I’ve encountered yet.

 

I’m at the first year service point so plan to inspect/change the anode.

 

Trying to get through to ESP to purchase a spare is fairly painful.

 

Has anyone managed to source their own?

@Jymmm Are you still happy another year on?

Is it for DHW and space heating.

I have been in talks with ESP and they are getting back to me but initial conversation is that it won't meet my 1.1kw requirements for space heating over 144 sq metres the long runs of UFH are what Harold at ESP was concerned about.

Also that if I use all the water on long baths and showers it would take 5 hours to heat up again just on MVHR with no solar, in the evening, and would not be providing space heating during that time as DHW is its first call.  Seems a bit strange, and even if he was right my UFH will cool down slowly, and for two people to use 300l of hot water is a bit excessive for a shower it was as if he didn't want to make the sale because he thought it didn't meet our requirements.

Im not passive but close to, do you remember your heating requirements or U values?

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Susie

[HughF]

30 minutes ago, Susie said:

@Jymmm Are you still happy another year on?

Is it for DHW and space heating.

I have been in talks with ESP and they are getting back to me but initial conversation is that it won't meet my 1.1kw requirements for space heating over 144 sq metres the long runs of UFH are what Harold at ESP was concerned about.

Also that if I use all the water on long baths and showers it would take 5 hours to heat up again just on MVHR with no solar, in the evening, and would not be providing space heating during that time as DHW is its first call.  Seems a bit strange, and even if he was right my UFH will cool down slowly, and for two people to use 300l of hot water is a bit excessive for a shower it was as if he didn't want to make the sale because he thought it didn't meet our requirements.

Im not passive but close to, do you remember your heating requirements or U values?

 

These are heat pump water cylinders, plain and simple... Don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise. 

 

If your heat loss is 1.1kW then have you considered just using a willis heater to drive your UFH loops? With interest rates heading upwards, you'd probably be better off going direct electric and leaving the ASHP costs in the bank.

[HughF]

If you are looking for a DHW solution in a near passive then you've got the option of a heatpump water heater (many manufacturers available) or a direct UVC running one or more immersions (top and bottom).

[Nickfromwales]

If Harold fell into a bucket of t*ts, he’d come out sucking his thumb.

[Susie]

4 hours ago, HughF said:

These are heat pump water cylinders, plain and simple... Don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise. 

 

If your heat loss is 1.1kW then have you considered just using a willis heater to drive your UFH loops? With interest rates heading upwards, you'd probably be better off going direct electric and leaving the ASHP costs in the bank.

Thanks @HughFand @Nickfromwales

I’m looking for DHW and space heating UFH with small wood burner for those really cold nights and they look nice. 
I do keep coming back to Willis just trying to explore all options. May be more PV to cover the cloudier days is the way to go. we would self install the PV (other half is electrician but been off the tools now for nearly 8 years) and we can probably use as much as we generate either in the home or divert to our home business in the barn, without exporting and MCS. 
I will keep researching. 

 

[Thedreamer]

@Susie Have you looked at Joule? I have been using their aero system for over 2 and half years for our domestic hot water. I I heat our house with a centrally placed wood stove.

 

 

[Jymmm]

On 16/11/2022 at 16:44, Susie said:

@Jymmm Are you still happy another year on?

Is it for DHW and space heating.

I have been in talks with ESP and they are getting back to me but initial conversation is that it won't meet my 1.1kw requirements for space heating over 144 sq metres the long runs of UFH are what Harold at ESP was concerned about.

Also that if I use all the water on long baths and showers it would take 5 hours to heat up again just on MVHR with no solar, in the evening, and would not be providing space heating during that time as DHW is its first call.  Seems a bit strange, and even if he was right my UFH will cool down slowly, and for two people to use 300l of hot water is a bit excessive for a shower it was as if he didn't want to make the sale because he thought it didn't meet our requirements.

Im not passive but close to, do you remember your heating requirements or U values?

 

 

Used for DHW only. Standard newbuild 300mm wall with 100mm insulation.

Having to change the Magnesium anode every year is tedious and expensive (£60 and ESP the only place to buy them). Documentation isn’t that good either - I have no idea how to set the anti-legionella function for example. It’s also a little bit too noisy for my liking.
That said I’ve had no problems with the end-product – hot water is fine. I also don’t mind the constant ventilation even if it’s reducing the heating efficiency of the house.

Have they quoted you a price yet as it would be interesting to know. Factor in the £200 odd for the annual service and anode change (and good luck finding someone easily to do the job).

If I needed to replace it I’d have a look at something like the vaillant aroSTOR depending on price.

 

 

 

 

On 16/11/2022 at 19:46, Nickfromwales said:

If Harold fell into a bucket of t*ts, he’d come out sucking his thumb.

 

Care to elaborate?

[Susie]

I’ve hopefully got quotes coming in from ESP, joule and valiant. I will update on this. 

[HughF]

Just to add, Cool Energy do heat pump water heaters... might be worth a look. They are a helpful bunch up there.

 

https://coolenergyshop.com/collections/ecostore-ecosyn-exhaust-air-heat-pumps