Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Hi folks, happy St David's day.. Does anyone have some advice or experience with upgrading a knackered oil combi for something greener, something that ideally will benefit from RHI payments once installed. ASHP would be too much hassle replacing existing plumbing etc, so was thinking maybe Biomass? although on first inspection the systems I've seen look quite space hungry and not particularly economical, or am i missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 The first thing I would investigate before choosing biomass is the claim to be "greener" You will still be sending CO2 up your chimney just as your oil boiler emits CO2 from it's flue. Somehow, people claim this particular CO2 is "good" because it comes from trees that have only recently grown, been chopped down, chipped into pelets and shipped half way around the world. Sorry i don't buy that argument. I like a wood burning stove on a small scale burning local scrap wood mostly from windfall, but I am not at all convinced industrial scale wood burning is in any way a green source of fuel. My fear for these systems is one day, someone will wake up to the fact we are not going to get out CO2 emissions low enough while burning wood, and these systems will become the next "bad boy" just like diesel cars have,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 You could well be right, but I honestly don't know of any truly green energy, at least not yet. Surely the best we can hope for in the short term (excluding new build systems) is moving away from unsustainable fossil fuels, of course, somewhere in the middle distance a new green form of energy will emerge, there are a few runners and riders currently at the theoretical stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Green and Eco are nonsense terms, they have no numbers attached to them. Oil burners, like gas, are not dreadful on emissions, so look into replacements. ASHP may well be worthwhile, depends how easy your current pipework can be modified for different controls and lower temperatures. RHI is a costly route to go down. Spend an hour on eBay and see what is kicking about. If you want to reduce CO2, look at your car. Makes me giggle when people on here talk about low energy housing and then drive a Landrover, Ranger over, large Merc or Audi. This is just pottering around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 I should confess I'm only really interested in green if it saves me money, if gov incentives are out there to pay me to install something then I'll do it, I drive a diesel xc90 that does 23mpg on good run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I only know one person who swapped oil for biomass. They lost half their double garage to the massive boiler and even more massive thermal store, and then watched as the price of oil fell, while the price of pellets rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, ProDave said: They lost half their double garage to the massive boiler and even more massive thermal store, and then watched as the price of oil fell, while the price of pellets rose. A decade ago, Mike L, over at the other place was whining to me that he fitted s GSHP just as the oil price plummeted. Been low ever since. All that fuss in 2006/7 that oil would hit $250/barrell. Even the greens new it would not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, ProDave said: I only know one person who swapped oil for biomass. They lost half their double garage to the massive boiler and even more massive thermal store, and then watched as the price of oil fell, while the price of pellets rose. Yeah, this is what I'm hearing too, hard to see past oil when its so damn cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 We looked seriously at biomass a few years back as our original architect was pushing it. We talked to a couple of people who had it and I got the distinct impression that they were putting a brave face on a big mistake. I think if you have a commercial property, a massive stately home or you're using it to heat multiple houses like holiday lets it may be a good idea. We are fitting ASHP and even that's only because mains gas is not available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 minute ago, SteamyTea said: A decade ago, Mike L, over at the other place was whining to me that he fitted s GSHP just as the oil price plummeted. Been low ever since. All that fuss in 2006/7 that oil would hit $250/barrell. Even the greens new it would not happen. It's a double edge sword in some ways, low oil prices driven by reduced demand from floundering western economies (+ US fracking). So we get to enjoy cheap oil whilst simultaneously watching our place in the world slide away.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) Global sustained economic growth has always happened during times of low, and stable, oil prices. It is then down to governments and consumers, to decide what we burn it for. Do we just add it into inefficient vehicles, or build some wind turbines. Heat thermally leaky housing, or make cheaper insulation and windows. Seems to me we just like to burn it, thus keeping old infrastructure going. You are in a position to choose. Choose wisely. Edited March 1, 2021 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, Ralph said: We looked seriously at biomass a few years back as our original architect was pushing it. We talked to a couple of people who had it and I got the distinct impression that they were putting a brave face on a big mistake. I think if you have a commercial property, a massive stately home or you're using it to heat multiple houses like holiday lets it may be a good idea. We are fitting ASHP and even that's only because mains gas is not available. I'm getting the same impression, just interested to hear of any positives of biomass, if there are any! More broadly though, if UK Gov serious about carbon neutrality it's gonna have to get a lot more creative with incentives for older rural properties. I recently had a quote for ASHP - £12k excluding electrical mods, and excluding mods to existing plumbing. RHI didn't anything like cover it. I can buy a new oil Worcester combi and have it fitted for £3k..something's seriously out of balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Global sustained economic growth has always happened during times of low, and stable, oil prices. It is then down to governments and consumers, to decide what we burn it for. Do we just add it into inefficient vehicles, or build some wind turbines. Heat thermally leaky housing, or make cheaper insulation and windows. Seems to me we just like to burn it, thus keeping old infrastructure going. You are in a position to choose. Choose wisely. Supply and demand, oil just another commodity...you have a point with keeping old infrastructure going with fossil fuels, my old xc90 drinks fuel, but, in its favour, it's already been built and it runs perfectly so pointless replacing it, even at a ridiculous 20mpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timedout Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Stick with oil but ditch the combi type. Oil combi boilers drink fuel like it was free. Install a cylinder and a system boiler. We have had two oil combi boilers and both we very uneconomic. Regular oil boilers seem ok, just noisy and a bit smelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) Just a thought. How bad is your old oil burner. Would spending part of that 3k on improving the house, better heating controls, and more than just a service on the boiler be money better spent? An example is my neighbours. They get new cars every 3 years, 'because they need reliability'. We live on a good (for Cornwall) bus route, the two schools are within walking distance, 3 supermarkets less than half a mile away, A DIY shed, MacDs, Dominoes, and Costa close by. Probably costs them 8k a year in depreciation, and he whines that it costs nearly 100 quid a month to run the house. Edited March 1, 2021 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 Yes, you're right there, had a regular oil system in my old place, very efficient and instant plentiful water...and decent showers. I inherited this combi, it's a terrible boiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, Coops said: it's already been built and it runs perfectly so pointless replacing it, even at a ridiculous 20mpg. It will get recycled though, do lowers the embodied energy of the next product it gets turned into. It must hurt when you fill it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Just a thought. How bad is your old oil burner. Would spending part of that 3k on improving the house, better heating controls, and more than just a service on the boiler be money better spent? An example is my neighbours. They get new cars every 3 years, 'because they need reliability'. We live on a good (for Cornwall) bus route, the two schools are within walking distance, 3 supermarkets less than half a mile away, A DIY shed, MacDs, Dominoes, and Costa close by. Probably costs them 8k a year in depreciation, and he whines that it costs nearly 100 quid a month to run the house. The boiler is like Triggers broom now, more new parts than original, and there is still a persistent leak...it's caput basically. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: It will get recycled though, do lowers the embodied energy of the next product it gets turned into. It must hurt when you fill it up. It hurts like hell, but thankfully it's not that often, I haven't needed to commute for quite a few years now, so it's really just a run around, couldn't and wouldn't want to use it to do 20k miles a year. Edited March 1, 2021 by Coops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 22 minutes ago, Coops said: I recently had a quote for ASHP - £12k excluding electrical mods, and excluding mods to existing plumbing. That's not far off what we're paying for the ASHP, UFH and plumbing in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 Maybe they were trying to pull my pants down..! Whereabouts are you? Might give them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, Coops said: Maybe they were trying to pull my pants down..! Whereabouts are you? Might give them a call. North East of Scotland so may be just a wee bit far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 Haha yeah, that might explain the price difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, Coops said: Haha yeah, that might explain the price difference Have a word with @canalsiderenovation He can tell you who to avoid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 Was also considering a product from a company called Marshall, it's a company in Derby that make Aga type cookers that run heating and HW but crucially the oven can be turned on and off instead of it being on 24/7 like an Aga or Rayburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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