Zinc angled standing seam.

[Makeitstop]

Thats a lot of zinc, and an excellent price.

 

What is the product you are using.?

 

[SimonD]

On 17/01/2021 at 10:40, Russdl said:

@SimonD he posted drawings on page one of this thread. Doesn’t look too complex. 

Ah, yes I've now found them thanks. Doesn't look too complex at all.

[SimonD]

On 17/01/2021 at 20:03, Makeitstop said:

 

I'll PM you Simon, and can perhaps forward on the drawing. It isn't a complex job and in fact, I've been told so by another installer that was aimed my way from Sean at the metal roof company. (Hes a good guy as you said)

 

 

I found the drawing you uploaded to this thread now - I obviously didn't read it all carefully enough first time time round! Hope you have some joy finding someone.

 

Re material requirements. From my experience, it's not the trays that are too difficult or time consuming, it's making up the flashings and depending on the girth required for the flashings it can considerable increase the total amount of material required because the flashings are typically cut from a 600mm width coil. I'll scan and upload recommended detailing for parapet, cladding and window reveals to illustrate later on.

[SimonD]

Here is the photo of the detailing for info. As a comparison re price, last year I got a quote for zinc material only which worked out at about £35/m2 plus VAT for the standing seams and up to about £45/m2 for flashings. This was all cut and formed. Interesting to see the installers markup on here but it is skilled work.

 

 

[Makeitstop]

Thanks for that Simon.

 

One of the installers I spoke with mentioned how the edge work around the sliding doors and windows increased the work, and I get that. Having said that, from the quote I had from the same person, it still feels expensive at £3000 for installation, which by his estimation, was likely to be between a week to two weeks work. 

 

I'm waiting on hearing from one or two others, but I'm not holding my breath that it'll be any better. I'm unsure how their prices are worked out, but there appears to be far less variation in prices than with usual trades. 

 

Thanks for the detailing images too, they are useful to look through.

 

[gc100]

13 hours ago, Makeitstop said:

Thanks for that Simon.

 

One of the installers I spoke with mentioned how the edge work around the sliding doors and windows increased the work, and I get that. Having said that, from the quote I had from the same person, it still feels expensive at £3000 for installation, which by his estimation, was likely to be between a week to two weeks work. 

 

I'm waiting on hearing from one or two others, but I'm not holding my breath that it'll be any better. I'm unsure how their prices are worked out, but there appears to be far less variation in prices than with usual trades. 

 

Thanks for the detailing images too, they are useful to look through.

 

Just simple supply/demand 

[Makeitstop]

3 hours ago, gc100 said:

Just simple supply/demand 

 

Not necessarily.

 

A recent quote of £3k for labour (plus supply of membrane and clips) was from someone seeking work, as hes recently gone on his own.

 

I think it appears to be more a case of being used to seeing the numbers that are, or can be quoted, and putting them forward, perhaps out of habit, or what people think the public will pay.

 

I'm not sure about the view of others, but £3000 for perhaps 10 days work sounds pricey to me.

 

[SimonD]

So membrane about 50 quid plus VAT and clips maybe £75, the rest is then labour. I've been told that the going rate for installers on a day rate is between 180 - 220 depending on experience.

 

Now, many of the smaller outfits will need to either hire or borrow a tray former (as to buy they typically start at about £10k even for a compact version) as well as a folding and cutting machine (again a few k to buy). They will also have to bring a second person to help with tray forming, but I'd expect that would only be a couple of days max with your design. Was this mentioned or covered in the discussion/quote? When I hired the equipment and tools myself for a couple of weeks it cost about £1200 and if this is included in the quote, it could make more sense. They might get the materials from somewhere that forms and folds the sheet but then that service plus transport can work out more than getting in the machinery. It's a bit of chicken and egg.

 

Just a bit of speculation about why the cost might be coming in at it is.

 

Another thought may be that you could modifiy your design to make it ever so slightly easier for the installer. I noticed that on the drawings you posted the window would require a couple of trays to be cut out vertically. If you could line up the edges of the windows to run in line with the seams of the cladding it would save some time to clip it into the reveals - but then you also want to ensure the seams are symmetrical with the corner of the building and masonry. Again just an idea that may help things along.

 

I'm not entirely convinced the reveals are such as issue....

 

 

 

[Makeitstop]

27 minutes ago, SimonD said:

So membrane about 50 quid plus VAT and clips maybe £75, the rest is then labour. I've been told that the going rate for installers on a day rate is between 180 - 220 depending on experience.

 

Now, many of the smaller outfits will need to either hire or borrow a tray former (as to buy they typically start at about £10k even for a compact version) as well as a folding and cutting machine (again a few k to buy). They will also have to bring a second person to help with tray forming, but I'd expect that would only be a couple of days max with your design. Was this mentioned or covered in the discussion/quote? When I hired the equipment and tools myself for a couple of weeks it cost about £1200 and if this is included in the quote, it could make more sense. They might get the materials from somewhere that forms and folds the sheet but then that service plus transport can work out more than getting in the machinery. It's a bit of chicken and egg.

 

Just a bit of speculation about why the cost might be coming in at it is.

 

Another thought may be that you could modifiy your design to make it ever so slightly easier for the installer. I noticed that on the drawings you posted the window would require a couple of trays to be cut out vertically. If you could line up the edges of the windows to run in line with the seams of the cladding it would save some time to clip it into the reveals - but then you also want to ensure the seams are symmetrical with the corner of the building and masonry. Again just an idea that may help things along.

 

I'm not entirely convinced the reveals are such as issue....

 

 

 

 

 

Have to admit, I had wondered whether the quotes (from some) were due to having to hire gear. I had no idea of the cost of doing that but I'd doubt it'll be like hiring a 12" disc cutter for a day. Overall, I can see how the cost of installing could potentially be more than might seem reasonable at a glance, especially as there will likely be at least two at work on it. I suppose if I'm going to do it, I'll need to suck it up, but I'm looking into how it can be minimised, without compromising in the standard of finish.

 

I'm unsure of what you refer to re window, as the zinc only surrounds the sliding door. The window is installed within brickwork, so separated from the cladding. Im waiting on one or two others to get back to me, and should the  at least know where I am. If I can get all the other aspects of this job to come in at decent cost, then I could tolerate the I installation cost.

 

Hopefully I'll know next week. It's doing my nut now and I'm tired of looking into it.

 

 

 

[SimonD]

1 hour ago, Makeitstop said:

I'm unsure of what you refer to re window, as the zinc only surrounds the sliding door.

 

My bad! I meant the sliding door! But as it's all doing your nut, I won't try to explain any more! ?

[Makeitstop]

20 minutes ago, SimonD said:

 

My bad! I meant the sliding door! But as it's all doing your nut, I won't try to explain any more! ?

 

Ha, glad to have responses here Simon, so please go for it.

 

The last guy I spoke to did mention that to get that part properly right it does take some time. To be fair, he did provide me with some good info and from what I have been told, he is very good.

[GaryM]

On 18/01/2021 at 10:44, gc100 said:

 

I looked at that as it would be far more elegant solution but its seems crazy expensive. Do you mind sharing your cost and how many Kw?

 

 

I having 4Khw system the cost for the panels we £6300, but on top of that you need the cost of the inverter and getting it installed.  so all in all the best part of £10k, it better look good

[Kevin J]

On 14/01/2021 at 14:48, Makeitstop said:

That sounds like a very good price for VM anthra, although I guess you're talking of a few hundred metres of coverage overall yes?

 

 

There are seven zinc manufacturers active on the UK market with varying surface finishes. 
cost to install is determined by who you get and the level of detail involved. 
distributors offer samples and installation advise along with the details of installers in each region of the UK. Note: Location should have a bearing in your decision on which colour, indeed which metal to install ahead of budget

[Makeitstop]

13 hours ago, Kevin J said:

There are seven zinc manufacturers active on the UK market with varying surface finishes. 
cost to install is determined by who you get and the level of detail involved. 
distributors offer samples and installation advise along with the details of installers in each region of the UK. Note: Location should have a bearing in your decision on which colour, indeed which metal to install ahead of budget

 

Why?

[Kevin J]

Zinc, like Lead, Copper and uncoated Aluminium develop a Natural defensive oxide layer when exposed. It's a Patina. the aesthetic of the metal surface can be altered,

in a Coastal location you can also expect deposit of salt which can stain dramatically unwashed areas with some degree of pitting expected, even Stainless Steel can be effected. 

 

[Makeitstop]

I appreciate that coastal areas have, or can have, dramatic effect on metal roofing / cladding but there are options surely and there isnt necessarily a need to choose "a" particular metal. From everything I've read, a number of metals can be chosen without major problems.

 

That considered, I'm of the opinion that people would choose based on what finish they'd like and budget before feeling they had to choose on the metal first, ahead of the aesthetic value and budget.

[Kevin J]

On 17/01/2021 at 18:07, Russdl said:

 

 

Does that mean you have to ship the roof panels to BiPVCo to get the PV bonded to them?

 

On 17/01/2021 at 18:07, Russdl said:

 

 

Does that mean you have to ship the roof panels to BiPVCo to get the PV bonded to them?

 

[Russell griffiths]

9 minutes ago, Makeitstop said:

I appreciate that coastal areas have, or can have, dramatic effect on metal roofing / cladding but there are options surely and there isnt necessarily a need to choose "a" particular metal. From everything I've read, a number of metals can be chosen without major problems.

 

That considered, I'm of the opinion that people would choose based on what finish they'd like and budget before feeling they had to choose on the metal first, ahead of the aesthetic value and budget.

I think the finish and colour is a bit immaterial really, when you put it up on the roof they all look very similar. 

Its just how dark you go, light grey through to black. 

Unless your really out there and go green or blue. 

 

I got got a few samples of roof sheets and did my own testing. 

 

I basically threw the sheets on the floor and jumped up and down on them, I then left them out in the rain to see what happened. 

 

A bit unconventional but hey ho, I worked out that I hated the aluminium. Too thin dented easily. 

 

So i would pick the base material and the coating if any, then the colour 

[Kevin J]

On 19/01/2021 at 19:07, Tosh said:

170m2 for the roof and 120m2 for the walls, all SS. 

Hi Tosh

There are self-install systems on the market. We could also direct you to a number of installer customers who offer supply fit or labour only

[Kevin J]

On 18/01/2021 at 10:44, gc100 said:

 

I looked at that as it would be far more elegant solution but its seems crazy expensive. Do you mind sharing your cost and how many Kw?

 

Installing BiPVCo Solar 358mm PV on SSAB GreenCoat PLX Pro, Colour Mountain Grey (036) from Metal Solutions Ltd with Snaplock(R) Standing Seam at 400mm wide panels 

Installation in Graven Hill, Bicester. Electrics at the ridge under a low impact profile

[Makeitstop]

27 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I think the finish and colour is a bit immaterial really, when you put it up on the roof they all look very similar. 

Its just how dark you go, light grey through to black. 

Unless your really out there and go green or blue. 

 

I got got a few samples of roof sheets and did my own testing. 

 

I basically threw the sheets on the floor and jumped up and down on them, I then left them out in the rain to see what happened. 

 

A bit unconventional but hey ho, I worked out that I hated the aluminium. Too thin dented easily. 

 

So i would pick the base material and the coating if any, then the colour 

 

Yes Russell, I recall you mentioning your "scientific testing" of materials. Ha.

 

In fairness, i reckon you'll get a good idea of what's durable or not going at it like that. Your roof looked great, although I've not looked at samples of steel products. For my job, it's a small area, so material costs aren't the major issue, its installation cost.

[SimonD]

1 hour ago, Kevin J said:

Installing BiPVCo Solar 358mm PV on SSAB GreenCoat PLX Pro, Colour Mountain Grey (036) from Metal Solutions Ltd with Snaplock(R) Standing Seam at 400mm wide panels 

Installation in Graven Hill, Bicester. Electrics at the ridge under a low impact profile

Interesting, do they supply a retrofit version or does this have to be integrated with the trays before installation?

[Kevin J]

13 minutes ago, SimonD said:

Interesting, do they supply a retrofit version or does this have to be integrated with the trays before installation?

On 18/01/2021 at 10:44, gc100 said:

 

I looked at that as it would be far more elegant solution but its seems crazy expensive. Do you mind sharing your cost and how many Kw?

 

Installing BiPVCo Solar 358mm PV on SSAB GreenCoat PLX Pro, Colour Mountain Grey (036) from Metal Solutions Ltd with Snaplock(R) Standing Seam at 400mm wide panels 

Installation in Graven Hill, Bicester. Electrics at the ridge under a low impact profile

[LSB]

2 hours ago, Kevin J said:

Installing BiPVCo Solar 358mm PV on SSAB GreenCoat PLX Pro, Colour Mountain Grey (036) from Metal Solutions Ltd with Snaplock(R) Standing Seam at 400mm wide panels 

Installation in Graven Hill, Bicester. Electrics at the ridge under a low impact profile

this is what I want, who supplied and how much did it cost, and can we DIY

 

[Kevin J]

Next Generation Renewable Energy greg@ngre.co.uk can help