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Changing Horses mid-stream


Piers

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Hi All. Hope you're all well and getting through lockdown.

 

We're looking for an architectural technologist/techician (difference?) to take over from the architect who got us to planning. The architect was a nice guy and we like his design but his attention to detail was appalling and we feel that we'd be better served going with someone who is genuinely interested in how the house is built. We don't feel that the architect ever really cared that we wanted to build in ICF or had that much interest in the details that we specified. Just like our faithful dog he only listened when it suited him!

 

So now we're looking to find someone to take the planning drawings and turn them into construction drawings (with a few small tweaks) as well as helping deal with discharging planning conditions.

 

I know from other posts that some people are very against changing architects/ATs mid-project whilst others see no issue.

 

Can any of you offer guidance on what to watch out for, what to ask for, etc - basically how to reduce the chance of regretting the change of horses!

 

Also, can anyone recommend an AT who has experience of ICF (Durisol/Isotex) builds? 

 

I have asked Durisol and Insulhub for some introductions but I trust the experience on this forum for a (generally) objective recommendation.

 

Thanks All and Stay Safe

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What the building is made from (as opposed to looks like) doesn't matter from a planning perspective, and they were probably wise not to get too bogged down in details when their fee only covered planning!

 

Recognise there will be a real cost in order to get the other architect up to speed, but your money so far bought you planning, so there's no reason not to shop around for the next Stage.

 

No recommendation in regards to ICF builds I'm afraid. I'm researching them now from an SE point of view as I would like to move towards more sustainable building techniques. 

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We had a good architect in that he designed a building we liked visually and functionally and most important got us through planning (eventually).

 

Like you, he was not that interested in how it was built (was only really experienced with traditional methods), how it performed (low energy etc) and had no ideas at all about the basement which he was always a bit resistant to.

 

So we parted company at that point on good terms and we took over the management of the build - did our own planning conditions discharge and used an independent BCO who was very helpful - plus all the resources on this site. Saved his quoted £15k in fees also for the next stage (detailed design).

 

We were helped to some degree by choosing a comprehensive timber frame package that included their own SE and were able to provide the BCO with all the detail they asked for.

 

However we did commission our own SE for the basement and they produced the drawings to take to tender and all the calcs to satisfy BCO

 

So if you're considering changing architect stop and think whether you need one at all and explore other options. Are you contemplating DIY for the ICF or using a contractor?

 

I used a SE (Tara) who now work at Build Collective (https://www.buildcollective.co.uk/about-us) and are pretty experienced in ICF although I did not end up going down that path myself.

 

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

We are a little bit in the same boat with our architect. The whole experience has been somewhat underwhelming but that could just be because they are so busy these days and really dont need to worry too much about drumming up business?

 

The underwhelming part is the design itself. We gave them a brief on what we wanted, including diagrams, and they have literally just gone by the stuff we gave them. I had to write back to them to ask them to use some judgement and incorporate some of their own ideas in to our design (things like missing skylights and extending the roof over the entrance for extra cover etc).

 

But yeah, will see what they come back with after our suggested updates otherwise I guess we will change architects and go from there.

 

 

Edited by ScottyB
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We also parted company with our architect, but that was after 2 refusals.  I then, from the LPA report, commissioned some more surveys and submitted again.  As the previous applications has drawings the LPA didn't require that we submitted more other wise that would have been a lot more cost.

We are now at the stage where we need to find someone to prepare plans for BR drawings for us.  We discharged the conditions ourselves, they were pretty straightforward.

 

As it's a barn conversion we are currently preparing it ready to be rebuilt so as of yet this isn't holding us up, but I must admit to being a bit flummoxed about who to use, ideas greatly received.

 

The barn has 3 1/4 walls so we only need to build a single 18m wall and haven't decided whether to use ICF, Timber or cavity block.  It does, of course, have to join with the existing walls, but thankfully only at corners.

 

Our problem with the architect was that he said that most of the things requested by the LPA should have been post approval conditions not pre-approval.  We didn't really care, we just thought that if they were needed what difference did it make, okay could have been lots, but I got them myself and it sailed through.

 

Discharging the conditions was easy, is that something you could commission yourself?

 

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13 hours ago, LSB said:

Our problem with the architect was that he said that most of the things requested by the LPA should have been post approval conditions not pre-approval.  We didn't really care, we just thought that if they were needed what difference did it make, okay could have been lots, but I got them myself and it sailed through.

 

You must be in the 1% of the 1% of clients there! Nobody I've ever worked with wants to pay out for lots of surveys prior to the grant of planning permission.

The more outlay you have before an approval the more risk you are taking on, it's much more prudent to achieve a permission then add supplementary information to clear conditions

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3 hours ago, the_r_sole said:

 

You must be in the 1% of the 1% of clients there! Nobody I've ever worked with wants to pay out for lots of surveys prior to the grant of planning permission.

The more outlay you have before an approval the more risk you are taking on, it's much more prudent to achieve a permission then add supplementary information to clear conditions

I agree, but as it was a barn conversion on an old pig farm it was obvious that we would need a bat survey and contamination survey.   The LPA wanted to see the results pre planning whereas architect said it should be a condition.  If it was something totally unnecessary, like flood report (top of hill) then I would have argued more.  But, as it was already 2 years into trying I just wanted to get there.

The only condition we had post planning was a phase 2 contamination as all the rest were already done.  Cost in the end would have been about the same in this situation.

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3 hours ago, Jilly said:

Make sure you use a technician who is very experienced in the method you wish to use. I stupidly chose someone I like, but who had to go scuttling to Google to research the answers to my queries on the clock...

Hi Jilly, sorry to be dim, but what do you mean, I thought a technician was general for building control, are you saying that ICF technicians are different from block ones.

 

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Apologies, I meant the architect's technician.  That is who will do your Building Control drawings. 

 

From what I've noticed on here, the same could hold true of the builder, its much easier to chose someone experienced in your build method rather than both you and the builder learning as you go along. My builder is experienced in block and timber frame, for example, but I don't think he's done ICF. 

Edited by Jilly
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5 hours ago, Jilly said:

Apologies, I meant the architect's technician.  That is who will do your Building Control drawings. 

 

From what I've noticed on here, the same could hold true of the builder, its much easier to chose someone experienced in your build method rather than both you and the builder learning as you go along. My builder is experienced in block and timber frame, for example, but I don't think he's done ICF. 

that's.

Before this whole process started, after doing a few renovations I thought I was quite knowledgeable.  Now I know I know nothing, or very little.

But, one we can't afford to get someone in to do everything and secondly when we do get trades for some bits I want to know if they are taking the micky so I'm trying to learn.

 

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On 15/01/2021 at 12:07, George said:

What the building is made from (as opposed to looks like) doesn't matter from a planning perspective, and they were probably wise not to get too bogged down in details when their fee only covered planning!

 

Recognise there will be a real cost in order to get the other architect up to speed, but your money so far bought you planning, so there's no reason not to shop around for the next Stage.

 

No recommendation in regards to ICF builds I'm afraid. I'm researching them now from an SE point of view as I would like to move towards more sustainable building techniques. 

Hello George.

 

I have highlighted your last sentence.

 

It's a fascinating subject and as you can see on BH not well understood in structural terms. I have been knocking this about too for while too. You have the goetech side, the soil modulus and how this interacts with reinforced concrete / insulation layer say for a basement.

 

Looking at a lot of the posts on BH and some of the details that are posted it strikes me how often the load path is broken particularly in terms of lateral stability and uplift, be that wind or shear / racking loads causing overturning of panels. Often you see that one design package will be the ICF, someone else designs the other elements and there is no real consideration given to how you connect / interface the elements together to achieve a robust and safe design.

 

Another thing is to develop an approach that is simple to build. Simplicity drives down cost and this helps encourage all who want to build in a sustainable way but have a limited budget.

 

The ICF concept for self build is much more main stream now. Even now in Scotland we have some serious interest in basement construction..underfloor heating is really starting to gain mass market traction too.

 

Would be very interested in your view on this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We opted for MODARC for our design, we are using ISOTEX.

 

From our first on site meeting Jim was able to suggest a good few positive ideas of the design and how ISOTEX could work with it.

 

Sadly our first design and our preferred design was then 20% altered to suit the PO. 

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On 21/04/2021 at 21:26, Gus Potter said:

Hello George.

 

I have highlighted your last sentence.

 

It's a fascinating subject and as you can see on BH not well understood in structural terms. I have been knocking this about too for while too. You have the goetech side, the soil modulus and how this interacts with reinforced concrete / insulation layer say for a basement.

 

Looking at a lot of the posts on BH and some of the details that are posted it strikes me how often the load path is broken particularly in terms of lateral stability and uplift, be that wind or shear / racking loads causing overturning of panels. Often you see that one design package will be the ICF, someone else designs the other elements and there is no real consideration given to how you connect / interface the elements together to achieve a robust and safe design.

 

Another thing is to develop an approach that is simple to build. Simplicity drives down cost and this helps encourage all who want to build in a sustainable way but have a limited budget.

 

The ICF concept for self build is much more main stream now. Even now in Scotland we have some serious interest in basement construction..underfloor heating is really starting to gain mass market traction too.

 

Would be very interested in your view on this.

 

 

I admit I didn't get too much further and won't unless I get a job to design one...!

 

As far as I can make out, the underlying assumption is that if ICF is treated geometrically like masonry, it will be fine! That is, using geometric rules, return walls etc.

 

That is a reasonable approach as you can build perfectly good sized houses from masonry and is fairly conservative anyway.

 

Like you say, it is the interfaces and connections that need special attention.

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On 11/01/2021 at 16:19, Piers said:

We're looking for an architectural technologist/techician (difference?) to take over from the architect who got us to planning. The architect was a nice guy and we like his design but his attention to detail was appalling and we feel that we'd be better served going with someone who is genuinely interested in how the house is built. We don't feel that the architect ever really cared that we wanted to build in ICF or had that much interest in the details that we specified. Just like our faithful dog he only listened when it suited him!

Piers,

I changed from an Architect, who couldn't start with us for 6 months, to an Architectural Engineer (I suspect same as a techologist/technician). He has been helpful and is certainly more attuned to the "how". 

One thing to note - I paid to get hold of the editable drawings from the Architect to give to the Engineer. A waste of money in retrospect - the Engineer could probably have re-drawn to his satisfaction and I wouldn't now have drawings with "bits" and dimensions that I need to keep asking about that the Engineer then says are from the Architects drawing ? 

HTH

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