Extending integrated garage to neighbours wall

[NandM]

I've seen a property that ticks most boxes...except the integrated garage is too small. There is a 1m space between the garage and boundary, which is also the side wall of the neighbours house. For this to work for me, I'd be wanting to extend the garage out right next to that wall. Do you think this would be possible or would I need to leave a gap and if so, how much? 

[JFDIY]

Sounds a lot of work to gain 1m and you could lower the value of both houses in the process. Especially if it looks like a semi afterwards.

 

Not sure on the regs but I recall a 1m maintenance gap being a thing a few years back.

[NandM]

Thanks...I think you're right and will pass on it

[DevilDamo]

Assuming you are referring to extending at ground floor level only, then there isn’t generally any design/Planning rules that stipulate a min. 1m gap.

 

Is this current gap your only front to rear access?

 

Are you only wanting to carry out these works to make your garage more usable and/or to park a vehicle?

[NandM]

Yes, its the only front to rear access, but the garage can be used for this by still having a door into the rear garden. 

 

I'd really like a garage that I can park my car in and for that I need a minimum of 3.5m width. With the house in question, taking the garage up to the neighbours wall would give me a little over 3.5m, when I take into account EWI on the house wall. The house also has a 3m wide entrance hallway, so I could potentially take some space from there also, but that may be more tricky depending on structural requirements.

[joe90]

@NandM why not post some drawings (freehand will do) I am sure you will get some new ideas to think of.

[DevilDamo]

3 hours ago, NandM said:

 

I'd really like a garage that I can park my car in and for that I need a minimum of 3.5m width

What vehicle are you wanting to park in there?

[Mr Punter]

If it is just a single storey garage, could you replace it with a car port?

[NandM]

My car, although not quite a tank, is 2.1m wide and the garage is currently 2.7m. A minimum of 1.4m of door opening space seems to be recommended i.e. 80cm for driver + 60cm for passenger side, hence 3.5m as a target.

 

I've attached the layout for the ground and first floor and have added a red box for the most simplest extension. Bedroom five above the garage doesn't go out to the full width - looks about 3/4.

 

It also needs lengthening by 2m. Doing this outward will just bring me to the 45 degree rule for neighbours window, but happy to sacrifice the pantry if needed as I'll be looking to extend and remodel the ground floor.  

 

There is also an option of sacrificing the WC by the entrance and extending inwards, but this will be more complicated.

 

I hadn't considered a car port, aside from how it'd look on that road, bedroom five above may be tricky. But it'd certainly remove the need for a brick wall extension and so provide some extra space...interesting idea.

[ProDave]

That is going to be a complicated extension, incorporating support for bedroom 5 that sits on the existing side wall of the garage.

 

The planners may not like it extending further forward.  If it's a recent development you may need covenant permission that might not be forthcoming.  You will need to join it to the neighbours wall with their permission, or alternatively build your own wall very close to theirs with all the complications that entails.

[joe90]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

The planners may not like it extending further forward

Yes. Planners don’t like building forward of an existing build. How close is your side wall to your boundary/neighbours wall?. Your plans show windows on the first floor to the neighbours side!. Extending your side house wall next to your neighbour may be difficult IF you can get planning anyway.

[DevilDamo]

I assume this is a forever home as you are not likely to get your money back for the works you’re proposing?

 

Just something to bear in mind that the majority of LPA’s state garages to be at least 3m wide x 6m long and this is more than enough for your average car. Bear in mind supermarket parking bays are usually 2.4m wide x 4.8m long.

 

Is the side wall to the Utility your neighbours’ wall as you mentioned about needing to connect to it in order to achieve the required space? If so, how feasible is it going to be to pull this ‘party’ wall forward?

[AliG]

I assume that the car is close to 5m long if it is that wide.

 

If you are comfortable driving it through the door, I would want at least 2.5m for that width of car, then a simpler solution might be to take down the side wall where the pantry and side door of the garage are. So like a car port from the side but looks like a garage from the front. You would just need a beam to support the wall at the side. The walls between the house and garage would need to be insulated which they already should be as the garage is effectively outside space.

 

As said by others a front extension is unlikely to be approved unless there is a building line there, so you would need to extend the garage back the way. Use the money saved from building to the side for a rear extension and bigger kitchen. Probably combine the kitchen and dining room and storage area at the back into one big room. It looks like the kitchen access is very awkward at the moment.

[Ferdinand]

 

One option to consider is to save 0.5 by ejecting passengers before you put it in the garage.

 

I would have a careful look at how other people have done it.

 

2.7m is wider than mine, but the car I am planning for it is only 1.5m wide ?.

 

F

[NandM]

I was thinking some sort of steel under Bedroom 5 to provide support, but I'm just guessing here.

 

The side wall of the utilty space is right next to the neighbours wall, the utility space is just above 1m.

 

Yes, this would be our forever home so I'd like to get as much of it right as possible...and I can't get having a usable garage out of my head! I had planned to remodel the rear of the house but sacrificing the pantry for garage - another metre inwards shouldn't be too much more of a headache/cost.

 

Good suggestion Ferdinand and I had thought about that. I've remodelled the downstairs to include the changes I had planned anyway re lounge, kitchen and WC.  This could work well as I'd have the size garage I want and keep a decent sized hallway. With this model, there won't be any new wall touching the neighbours and should actually be around 0.5m gap. I also don't think it'd add much more to the cost of what I was thinking of originally.

[DevilDamo]

All of this just to accommodate a larger and more usable Garage? Or were you also thinking about extending and altering the rear anyway?

[Ferdinand]

Can we have a rough site sketch, and orientation - North etc.

 

If you explain your wider aspiration, we may be able to throw other ideas in.

 

Some places - eg 30s London suburbs - going up to the plot edge and feeling squeezed is acceptable. In other places not.

 

This may be a case where a single storey "across the back" could remove pressure and general complication from your realignings.

 

At present it is feeling like one of these:

 

 

Ferdinand

[NandM]

The rear arrangements and WC move were already planned to make more living space, so the additional shit from the garage moving inwards changes it a little. 

 

Thanks Ferdinand - does the Google maps link do as a site map? 20 MacKenzie Rd - Google Maps 

 

The first floor of the property is fine and only requires the WC and bathroom to be combined. It's the ground floor where I'd like to create more space.

 

I'll more than likely have to use IWI for the lounge wall (unless neighbour agrees to EWI on that side) so that takes the room width down to around around 3.3m, which is a little narrow for me. So I thought about partitioning it into two, and extending the lounge into the garden and the current dining room. I could forgo extending into the dining room and just out, but I like the idea of having good width lounge.

 

A large kitchen diner is also a must, so combining what's left of the dining room with the kitchen and then extending outwards again should give us this. The utility room can go next to the new proposed WC, with a door to the outside.

[Ferdinand]

It's a nice long garden...

[AliG]

3 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

It's a nice long garden...

It is indeed. It seems crazy to have such long gardens and then the houses so close to each other at the sides, but it is what it is.

 

I like the idea of that plan, I am not a fan of rooms much longer than they are wide, they are hard to use. A smaller room at the front and wider lounge at the back would work well.

 

You will want to keep within permitted development rules, so no more than 4m back which it looks like you are within. Is that utility area actually a roofed extension as it would affect the ability to do a rear extension under PD, see these pictures. If not under PD you will have issues with the 45 degree rule.

 

As far as I can see a side extension would also be within PD, so it is very much up to you if you think the cost is worth it, you will need a lot of steel. I think moving the garage wall and WC is a lot of work for a very small benefit, the garage will be around 3.2m wide without this. Keeping the front pf the garage stepped in a little as shown would be a good idea. The thing that would make the biggest befit to using the garage is a wider door which you would have room for.

 

 

[Ferdinand]

Is it a conservation area?

Which walls are loadbearing?

[ProDave]

If this is a "forever home" I would keep looking.  I would want something with more space around it for further development.  It might mean buying something that has a lower starting point to achieve that.  It's a case of buy somewhere with all the fixed features as you like them, which basically means the right size plot.  Everything else you can fix or adapt.

 

I see that plot as being too restrictive for a forever home.

[NandM]

@AliG - the current "utility area" is nothing more than a glorified side passage! I wasn't thinking about extending the utility side beyond the current back of the house, but a 4m extension backwards for the rest gives plenty to play around with.

 

It's not a conservation area but it is intended to be a forever home. I'm leaning towards what ProDave is saying and may have to park this one. There is a nice 6 bed Edwardian just up to the road, with a much bigger footprint and garden - but it may end up being some sort of money pit!