Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Morning all Please could you help advise us. We live in a property where the neighbour has coverted an agricultural building into a dwelling. When they were at planning stage they did their upper most to hide any evidence of the horses. I didn't think much of it at the time. They also put in for another agricultural building to be build. Exactly the same size and windows of the one they are currently converting. As soon as this was built american stables went in. The horses are stabled every night, rugged and fed and certainly kept for recreational purposes. The planning came un announced and said they would need retrospective planning for the horses. It has arrived today but states for mixed agricultural use and for the horses overnight. It doesn't say how many stables, where muck heap will be or that the land will need a change of use. Why are they so determined not to have as equestrian use? Does it make planning easier on an agricultural building in the future rather than stables? Is it to do with rates? We are happy for it to be classes as equestrian as thats what it is... I'm just concerned at the determination to avoid that by the owners. Why hide it? I would approach the neighbours but they are not approachable last neighbours had an injunction against them Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 How is it effecting you ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 It's right next to my house. And it will effect me certainly if converted. Why not put in for the use that it is? Absolutely no issue with it being equestrian. Don't understand the push for agricultural when it isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 horses are not agricultural they are commercial and are of no use to get agg planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I believe, equestrian buildings are hard to get consent to convert but agricultural is easier. Dont quote me on that, but I’m sure I’ve read it that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Coffeehouse said: It's right next to my house. And it will effect me certainly if converted. Why not put in for the use that it is? Absolutely no issue with it being equestrian. Don't understand the push for agricultural when it isn't on the flip side you are effecting them also. It's their land at the end of the day not yours to tell them what you would consider acceptable for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 Im happy for them to have the horses there. I just know historically to get the permission for the the current dwelling the horse 'stuff' was all hidden away from inspection. I'm happy they got to do a build that doesn't affect me at all. The current barn is very large and was a new build for agriculture too. As soon as erected the American barn stables went in. Again absolutely fine by me. I just don't understand why they are reluctant to say it is equestrian use. It's now retrospectively gone in as mixed. The building is an exact replica of the one they have just converted. 17 roof lights etc.. I wouldn't be as happy with this converted as it would need to be accessed by our lane and very very close. So to clarify my concern is why not submit for equestrian? I may be over thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: horses are not agricultural they are commercial and are of no use to get agg planning. Agreed so don't understand why down for agricultural use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: on the flip side you are effecting them also. It's their land at the end of the day not yours to tell them what you would consider acceptable for them. I understand your thinking but why hide the horses? Why not submit for what you require? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Coffeehouse said: Agreed so don't understand why down for agricultural use. its easier to get and being former agri will be help them. Probably best to get them onside so your input will be listened to rather than being just another moaning neighbour to be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Coffeehouse said: Agreed so don't understand why down for agricultural use. As said above 20 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: horses are not agricultural they are commercial and are of no use to get agg planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 9 minutes ago, Coffeehouse said: wouldn't be as happy with this converted as it would need to be accessed by our lane have they got legal access over YOUR lane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Coffeehouse said: I wouldn't be as happy with this converted as it would need to be accessed by our lane and very very close. So to clarify my concern is why not submit for equestrian? I may be over thinking... OK so your concern is one of potential conversion not the use ..? To get Class Q approval (redundant agricultural building) they would need to prove it was not needed and hadn’t been so for a minimum of 10 years prior. The fact they are building new and getting PP for it would result in them either playing a very long game or that in reality they have just played the system and got the old one converted and now need somewhere to keep the horses... On access - do you mean a lane you own, or a general lane they have right of way over ..? If you own it, you say who uses it !!! 1 hour ago, Coffeehouse said: It has arrived today but states for mixed agricultural use and for the horses overnight. It doesn't say how many stables, where muck heap will be or that the land will need a change of use. OK so how much land do they have..? Less than 5 acres / 2 hectares and they will struggle with an agricultural application anyway. On the muck heap, that is statutory nuisance if it’s near your property and doesn’t require planning - it’s an environmental health issue not a planning issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Here's a really useful resource for you to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Dave Jones said: its easier to get and being former agri will be help them. Probably best to get them onside so your input will be listened to rather than being just another moaning neighbour to be ignored. Oh I agree, and I don't want to sound like a complete arse, because truly Im not like that and happy for it to be equestrian and used as they are doing. Which is why it makes me nervous they are not just submitting for the purpose. Feel something in my water haha. I would love to be friendly with them but alas they are not very friendly. 2 previous neighbours (only 3 house hamlet) moved and one had an injunction eekk. I just couldn't understand the push for agricultural. Its a new build constructed thus Summer and stables went stright in. So had no previous agricultural use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, joe90 said: have they got legal access over YOUR lane? Yes we own the lane but they have access over it to thier property. The agricultural building has been built at the side of it next to our house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Then you could object to residential conversion in that more traffic over your land is unacceptable (you need a planning lawyer on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, PeterW said: OK so your concern is one of potential conversion not the use ..? To get Class Q approval (redundant agricultural building) they would need to prove it was not needed and hadn’t been so for a minimum of 10 years prior. The fact they are building new and getting PP for it would result in them either playing a very long game or that in reality they have just played the system and got the old one converted and now need somewhere to keep the horses... On access - do you mean a lane you own, or a general lane they have right of way over ..? If you own it, you say who uses it !!! OK so how much land do they have..? Less than 5 acres / 2 hectares and they will struggle with an agricultural application anyway. On the muck heap, that is statutory nuisance if it’s near your property and doesn’t require planning - it’s an environmental health issue not a planning issue. Humm not sure exactly how much land but more than 5 acres. Maybe that's why they hid the horses on the previous application to say had been empty? Yes I've no issue with current set up. More a concern over future conversion. It just made m e wobbly that they havnt submitted for the use, like there was another hidden agenda. Yes we own the lane but they do have access over. Although they don't use because they have built another drive to the new house. This was without planning do had to get retrospective on that too. There an issue with it too so if anyone came forward they would have to remove this drive. So as not to be an arse and ruin their whole plan we agreed they could have access. Otherwise they could of been in a position they couldn't get to their property. In hind sight though I'm thinking it was perhaps so they had seperate accesses to 2 properties in the future. In the deeds it does state their household however. Humm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, joe90 said: Then you could object to residential conversion in that more traffic over your land is unacceptable (you need a planning lawyer on that one. OK thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Coffeehouse said: So as not to be an arse and ruin their whole plan we agreed they could have access. Otherwise they could of been in a position they couldn't get to their property. In hind sight though I'm thinking it was perhaps so they had seperate accesses to 2 properties in the future. In the deeds it does state their household however. Humm. OK so the easement over your land is to the existing property. If they wanted to create a new property they would have to split the title and you can’t just split an easement and grant others permission so they would have to come to you anyway. 7 minutes ago, Coffeehouse said: It just made m e wobbly that they havnt submitted for the use, like there was another hidden agenda. Sadly it’s now easier to ask for retrospective permission as councils don’t really kick up a fuss for this sort of thing unless there are a lot of objections. And they don’t have the legal resources to fight long appeals so tend to let stuff go - sounds wrong I know !! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeehouse Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 Thank you all for your replies. Should I respond to the planning application to state its only equestrian as opposed to mixed use? Thanks x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 7 hours ago, PeterW said: OK so the easement over your land is to the existing property. If they wanted to create a new property they would have to split the title and you can’t just split an easement and grant others permission so they would have to come to you anyway. If the other property has a right of access it will not normally be limited and it could be used to access any number of new dwellings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 44 minutes ago, Coffeehouse said: Thank you all for your replies. Should I respond to the planning application to state its only equestrian as opposed to mixed use? Thanks x Round here, it’s the parish council that has a lot of local knowledge, you could inform them, but they may already know, find a local parish councillor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 If this is a full planning application and not class q permitted development I doubt it would make much difference what the current use is. I can't understand why you gave them a right of access as you clearly do not get on with them. If you object to their application you are unlikely to be popping over to borrow a cup of sugar anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 You really need to check the content of the easement you gave re access on your road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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