At wits end with window leak

[Kilt]

Had a window installed last year, the head is permanently wet.

Any advice or thoughts would great be appreciated as we're nearly 2 years into this debarcle.

 

 

There was a cock up in measurements/builder installation error, which meant a new lintel ranged from 0 to +10mm above the new window head.

(Window company blamed builder, builder blamed window company). It reality, the window company are not picking up any of the slack or blame and could have done a hell of lot more to help the builder, but the builder did cockup and put a new lintel in 5/10mm higher than original one, and then wrapped back in DPC. If the window company hadn't taken 30mm off vertical measurements "to aid installation", we'd not have these issues. 30mm seems ridiculously excessive.

 

The window company sealed the gap above the window (badly) with illbruck compriband, then installed PVC trim over the top to bridge gaps (pictures are before gaps filled and PVC trim went on). The illbruck compriband is always wet and is now utterly sodden after the storms. It almost dried out over the summer, but is now soaked again.

 

The window head is currently open to the internal air temp, so I was initially (wishfully) thinking it might just be a condensation build up, but there's too much water now to just be condensation.

 

The whole wall where this window is located has all been repointed, so there should be any water ingress from there.

 

My thoughts are, there should be a drain installed somewhere... Should the illbruck compriband be ripped out, so its not serving any purpose? (PVC trim acts as weather protection).

 

Help!!!

 

 

this gap was filled, prior to PVC trim going on. Stone quoins now cover the jambs.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Kilt

[Kilt]

finished PVC trim & stone quoins

[MikeGrahamT21]

Have you got a photo showing the whole window from a bit of a distance, just so we can see the wider picture? Also what direction is this window facing?

 

No way should you need a drain in the head of a window, water should never reach there. Are you sure this isn't condensation? A 10mm gap at the head isn't too large.

[joe90]

There appears to be no “drip” on the render/lintel to stop water tracking back into the window!.

[Declan52]

Is moisture coming down the cavity and can't escape via the dpc due to the compriband.

[ToughButterCup]

I'm with @joe90 on this one.

A simple drip channel (under the top of the upper external lintel) might solve your problem. But the  system shouldn't fail just because there isn't a drip channel.....?

[Oz07]

A line of clear silicone can form a temp drip just to test 

[Kilt]

1 hour ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

Have you got a photo showing the whole window from a bit of a distance, just so we can see the wider picture? Also what direction is this window facing?

 

No way should you need a drain in the head of a window, water should never reach there. Are you sure this isn't condensation? A 10mm gap at the head isn't too large.

after last nights storm there's a puddle on the window head that's been dripping on the floor.

 

Window is south/south-south-east facing.

 

Photo below.

[Kilt]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

There appears to be no “drip” on the render/lintel to stop water tracking back into the window!.

there isn't one no.. but builder said its not normal practise for a have a drip on a lintel. The sill obviously does...

[Declan52]

So rain looks like it's running down the face of that wall and going back into the cavity at the head down the cavity and onto your window. Look at the difference in colour of both lintels. 

[Kilt]

1 hour ago, Declan52 said:

Is moisture coming down the cavity and can't escape via the dpc due to the compriband.

this is what I think, there's definitely no where for it to go... except internally.

 

Last winter we had some severe leaks coming in through the internal structural lintels, so we raked out all the old pointing, and totally repointed the whole gable end over the summer, skew/coping stones were all rendered and sealed up. Touch wood, we've had no recurrence of these leaks so hoped we'd fixed all the moisture issues... But this compriband/DPC issues has returned.

[Kilt]

6 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

So rain looks like it's running down the face of that wall and going back into the cavity at the head down the cavity and onto your window. Look at the difference in colour of both lintels. 

the lower lintel is a replacement. Top lintel has +20 years on the lower one, even though they "colour matched".

 

However you can see how wet the gable end is, and where the moisture is still lurking. Above the new lintel its been repointed and totally packed with mortar, just a few months ago, in NHL 5 lime. It was originally poorly done in portland cement and not really smeared into the back.

 

Hence me being utterly at wits end.. sorely tempted to brick up the whole window! ?

Edited November 2, 2020 by Kilt

[Declan52]

Think you going to have to remove all the beading,tape,wooden header etc and leave just the window sitting there so you can look up the cavity. Take a hose and squirt above the lintel on the outside and look up the cavity and see if water is getting in and coming down the cavity. Then you will know where it's coming from and the next step to fix it.

The dpc they put on should go from the outside skin across to the inside skin not just wrapped around the lintel.

[MikeGrahamT21]

Lack of cavity tray is the only thing which would cause this I think, but installing one would be a huge job. If water is getting into the cavity though, no matter how much sealing up you do, you'll just be moving the problem somewhere else. If penetration is indeed the issue, you could consider masonry brick/stone waterproofing cream, which should reduce penetration of moisture, and this may be enough to sort it.

 

Does this property have a cavity or is it solid walled? If its solid the cream may well help, but having never used it myself, i can't comment how good it is.

 

See what you find first and take it from there.

Edited November 2, 2020 by MikeGrahamT21

[Kilt]

20 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Think you going to have to remove all the beading,tape,wooden header etc and leave just the window sitting there so you can look up the cavity. Take a hose and squirt above the lintel on the outside and look up the cavity and see if water is getting in and coming down the cavity. Think you will know where it's coming from and the next step to fix it.

The dpc they put on should go from the outside skin across to the inside skin not just wrapped around the lintel.

Yeah I've pressured washed it before now, to try and re-create the issue, but nothing. Seems to only occur with south-westerly storms, after a period of wet weather. 

 

How would you get the wood head out? Just recip saw it out? There's not scope to get access to screws without window coming out. Also there will be no way to get another wooden header back in... however......

 

The wooded head is pretty laughable really, window company insisted on it, size class etc. I had a nightmare fitting it... they then only fired one measly screw into it, with no packers. I questioned it and the fitters said they'd sufficient anchors on the sides and base, it was just a belt-n-braces hole filler.

 

I'm not going to be able to get that all ripped out until after winter. Any recommendations for someone to make good again? I'm not window fitter.

[Kilt]

21 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

Lack of cavity tray is the only thing which would cause this I think, but installing one would be a huge job. If water is getting into the cavity though, no matter how much sealing up you do, you'll just be moving the problem somewhere else. If penetration is indeed the issue, you could consider masonry brick/stone waterproofing cream, which should reduce penetration of moisture, and this may be enough to sort it.

 

Does this property have a cavity or is it solid walled? If its solid the cream may well help, but having never used it myself, i can't comment how good it is.

 

See what you find first and take it from there.

Yeah.. cavity tray is prob last resort, but what should really be there. 

I've been recommend Stormdry cream.. but had hoped the re-pointed would have fixed this.

 

The property does have a cavity, but all this issues are before cavity, as it's old stone walls (+700mm), with a timber kit on the inside. The window's installed in/under the stone, 150mm before the cavity starts. 

[Declan52]

Going by your info of it only occurring after persistent rain then it's definitely getting in from above and coming down your cavity. 

No matter how hard it is going to be to remove all that's there, to really discover what is going on it's going to have to come out or  it's just going to be another bodge after the multitude of Bodge jobs that have already taken place. 

You could try a few coats of Thompson's water seal painted over the face paying particular attention to around the top of the lintel. Then next summer arrange for what's there to come out and be fixed permanently.

[Mr Punter]

9 minutes ago, Kilt said:

I've been recommend Stormdry cream

 

+1

It is fairly pricey but works very well and is long lasting.  It is not the quickest to apply but will leave the wall breathable but rainwater will form beads and run off.  It goes quite a long way.

[Kilt]

11 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Going by your info of it only occurring after persistent rain then it's definitely getting in from above and coming down your cavity. 

No matter how hard it is going to be to remove all that's there, to really discover what is going on it's going to have to come out or  it's just going to be another bodge after the multitude of Bodge jobs that have already taken place. 

You could try a few coats of Thompson's water seal painted over the face paying particular attention to around the top of the lintel. Then next summer arrange for what's there to come out and be fixed permanently.

Aye its definitely been bodged from day 1 when house was built (we're putting an RSJ in living room as joists are failing).

 

It was just fact the compriband has never dried out, that made me think. I totally agree getting the wooded head out, pVC trims off and having a good look would be the best start.

 

I can't see how its getting into the cavity.. the pointing is brand new and perfect. 

[joe90]

I applied water reppelant to our west wall that catches the Atlantic weather and it’s brilliant, rain now runs off it like glass, expensive and dead easy to apply with a brush and one coat was sufficient   https://www.kingfisheruk.com/extreme-climate-next-generation-water-seal-item-26EC5#26ec5

[Dave Jones]

no cav tray/weepers?

 

I bet the water is wicking through the muck at the top of the lintle into the cavity, not helped by the sill of the window above certainly feeding water into it.

 

Guessing the builder couldnt do a tray as the little window above was in the way for getting access to the inner skin to make the cav tray.

[Mr Punter]

4 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I applied water reppelant to our west wall that catches the Atlantic weather and it’s brilliant, rain now runs off it like glass, expensive and dead easy to apply with a brush and one coat was sufficient   https://www.kingfisheruk.com/extreme-climate-next-generation-water-seal-item-26EC5#26ec5

 

25 years with the StormDry and it is non-hazardous and BBA approved.

[Kilt]

1 minute ago, Dave Jones said:

no cav tray/weepers?

 

I bet the water is wicking through the muck at the top of the lintle into the cavity, not helped by the sill of the window above certainly feeding water into it.

 

Guessing the builder couldnt do a tray as the little window above was in the way for getting access to the inner skin to make the cav tray.

no, none.

 

I think to get a tray in, it'd have to be built into little window above, its why I've avoided it. My final thread of hope is that window is rotten and water's getting in there. It's going to be replaced in next few months (maybe).

 

I don't think the idea of a tray crossed our builders mind. Quoted for 4 bodies to get the new lintel in, turned up with one and himself and some head scratching. Ended up me having to borrow a manatu from local farmer and helping get it in myself. I think the original DPC above the lintel might have got damaged when old one came out, hence him wrapping the back of the new one... Sadly I think that's just exacerbating the issue as any water hitting lintel or wicking through as you mentioned, hits DPC and flows nicely onto window head.

 

[Dave Jones]

5 minutes ago, Kilt said:

no, none.

 

I think to get a tray in, it'd have to be built into little window above, its why I've avoided it. My final thread of hope is that window is rotten and water's getting in there. It's going to be replaced in next few months (maybe).

 

I don't think the idea of a tray crossed our builders mind. Quoted for 4 bodies to get the new lintel in, turned up with one and himself and some head scratching. Ended up me having to borrow a manatu from local farmer and helping get it in myself. I think the original DPC above the lintel might have got damaged when old one came out, hence him wrapping the back of the new one... Sadly I think that's just exacerbating the issue as any water hitting lintel or wicking through as you mentioned, hits DPC and flows nicely onto window head.

 

yep which is why you need a tray. You could take the window out, brick it up and it would still leak exactly the same I would wager.

 

the little window above maybe has one under the cill which in effect is directing water ontop the new lintle

 

https://nhbc-standards.co.uk/6-superstructure-excluding-roofs/6-1-external-masonry-walls/6-1-17-dpcs-and-cavity-trays/

 

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Dave Jones

[Gav_P]

What state is the roof in? I had the same scenario in the past where in only certain weather conditions water was getting into the top of the cavity due to old knackered felt, then escaping through a downstairs window header onto the internal windowsill