Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) Not sure where to post this. My ASHP installer has said I need an EPC/SAP calculation to qualify for the RHI soon. As the builds not complete I assume I can't get a 'full' EPC? Before the build began the architect made me get a SAP calculation off the plans. I have this document. But the build has changed e.g. it's larger , also the original plan was a pellet boiler but now it's an ASHP. So I'm confused as to what I need exactly . Also *presume* I need someone to physically attend to do some form of EPC as off plan won't be accurate. I assume I need my SAP rating to be as high as possible to increase the RHI Any help appreciated Edited November 1, 2020 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Assume this is to get RHI for your ASHP..? If it’s an MCS install then it’s an as built or finished EPC which you can’t get as you’ll need to get things such as air test etc. You need as low a score as possible but inside a D (C..?) to qualify for RHI. Get an A and you’ll get about £100 a year, get a C and you’ll get £500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, PeterW said: Assume this is to get RHI for your ASHP..? If it’s an MCS install then it’s an as built or finished EPC which you can’t get as you’ll need to get things such as air test etc. You need as low a score as possible but inside a D (C..?) to qualify for RHI. Get an A and you’ll get about £100 a year, get a C and you’ll get £500 So I want a low score sap so rhi is more ? My old SAP puts us as a C .... Shall I just use this SAP for the ashp mcs accredited installer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Get whoever did the design SAP to now issue the "as built" SAP. He will need all the details of exactly what has changed from design to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, ProDave said: Get whoever did the design SAP to now issue the "as built" SAP. He will need all the details of exactly what has changed from design to build. But won’t that increase my epc rating which I don’t want ? Also to ‘prove’ any improvements he’d need to do a site visit . I don’t care what epc rating I get as I know the house in reality is higher than that - want maximum rhi though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, pocster said: So I want a low score sap so rhi is more ? My old SAP puts us as a C .... Shall I just use this SAP for the ashp mcs accredited installer ? Yes - but you need the as built or complete score and that needs someone to do it for you and then file it, and it is there forever in the system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, PeterW said: Yes - but you need the as built or complete score and that needs someone to do it for you and then file it, and it is there forever in the system. So if I go back to the firm that produced the original sap can they change it to “ as built “ ? Will they accept confirmation of ‘ as built’ from bco and/ or architect ? Also should I mention the changes ? I.e the improvements- or just ‘forget’ them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Depends. BCO won’t give them anything - you need to give the BCO the as built to prove your build has met Part L of the building regulations And altering an as built SAP to gain higher RHI payments would constitute fraud but don’t let that stop you ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 Just now, PeterW said: Depends. BCO won’t give them anything - you need to give the BCO the as built to prove your build has met Part L of the building regulations And altering an as built SAP to gain higher RHI payments would constitute fraud but don’t let that stop you ... Right . So ...... I really just need my old SAP to be classed as ‘ as built ‘ . I’ve magically forgotten any improvements I have done . So technically I’m not altering my SAP ? Guess it depends on what proof sap company require to change it to ‘as built’ then the mcs guy will be happy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 No because you can’t do an as built until it is complete ..? And you’re not complete ..?? And the ASHP will show as electric heating (ASHP) not pellet boiler to get your RHI for the ASHP..!! So if they do it “as is” then your claim for RHI will fail... You old SAP will be the DER/TER design one, the new one will be your complete one. There is a difference ..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, PeterW said: No because you can’t do an as built until it is complete ..? And you’re not complete ..?? And the ASHP will show as electric heating (ASHP) not pellet boiler to get your RHI for the ASHP..!! So if they do it “as is” then your claim for RHI will fail... You old SAP will be the DER/TER design one, the new one will be your complete one. There is a difference ..!! Didn’t realise old sap and new sap were different. So as I’m not complete but I am ‘built’ what exactly does my mcs guy need to qualify the ASHP for rhi ? . Apart from change pellet boiler to ASHP of course . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 You need a completed build SAP EPC certificate for the house. That’s what the installer needs. If you aren’t going to be complete before 31st March then you’re not going to be able in reality to get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 1 minute ago, PeterW said: You need a completed build SAP EPC certificate for the house. That’s what the installer needs. If you aren’t going to be complete before 31st March then you’re not going to be able in reality to get one. This is where I am confused as the mcs installer said there was a sap/epc lite - that could be used . I took this to mean the ‘off plan’ sap I have ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, PeterW said: You need a completed build SAP EPC certificate for the house. That’s what the installer needs. If you aren’t going to be complete before 31st March then you’re not going to be able in reality to get one. Thinking about this . What constitutes a ‘completed build’ ??? . Structure etc. Is complete so it’s epc rating wouldn’t be effected by anything I have yet to finish . Could I not get a new EPC as is ? I.e domestic visit ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Complete is as per completion for building regulations purposes. Therefore has signed off and tested certificates to meet the building regulations. Also starts your VAT reclaim window ticking potentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, PeterW said: Complete is as per completion for building regulations purposes. Therefore has signed off and tested certificates to meet the building regulations. Also starts your VAT reclaim window ticking potentially. Oh man ! These are not things I want ! . No time bombs . I’ll see what sap / mcs guy want in detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, pocster said: Oh man ! These are not things I want ! . No time bombs . I’ll see what sap / mcs guy want in detail Whole thread running about it here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 1 hour ago, PeterW said: Assume this is to get RHI for your ASHP..? If it’s an MCS install then it’s an as built or finished EPC which you can’t get as you’ll need to get things such as air test etc. You need as low a score as possible but inside a D (C..?) to qualify for RHI. Get an A and you’ll get about £100 a year, get a C and you’ll get £500 this is the stupidly crazy idiotic thing about RHI. get paid more for building a less efficient house! who the **** thought that was a good idea. surely any sane person would reward those building efficient houses. but when has logic ever played a part in government decisions. ?♂️ 4 minutes ago, PeterW said: Whole thread running about it here. in that thread it seemed to state that domestic RHI had been extended to 2022. so maybe there's not the rush you think @pocster? ask your MCS installer to clarify. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Thorfun said: this is the stupidly crazy idiotic thing about RHI. get paid more for building a less efficient house! who the **** thought that was a good idea. surely any sane person would reward those building efficient houses. but when has logic ever played a part in government decisions. ?♂️ in that thread it seemed to state that domestic RHI had been extended to 2022. so maybe there's not the rush you think @pocster? ask your MCS installer to clarify. It’s mental that the incentive is around the wrong way . If I’ve spent more and produced a more efficient house the reward should be more not less . I’ll double check that 2022 March - still better get my skates on ? Edited November 1, 2020 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADLIan Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Awhile since I was involved in consultation on RHI. It was originally planned for upgrading heating systems in existing housing and tied in to certain fabric upgrades. Not sure why self builders were given exemption, as you state with a well insulated modern build payment is minimal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 Spoke to company that did the original sap test . If I get the air test done and it passes they will issue an epc . Assume this is good news . Then I won’t pass it onto bco until I’m ready to ‘finish’ .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Yes an air test is all you need to convert as built into finished 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 hours ago, pocster said: If I get the air test done and it passes they will issue an epc . We had a preliminary air test done to find any leaks and it was good enough to pass easily but the tester wouldn't issue the certificate because the house wasn't finished enough. So we had to get him back to do a final test, bit of a con. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 @PeterStarck I've had testers who are reluctant to issue cert without knowing what your target is. Annoys me who are they the air test police? They are paid to test air leakage and give you a result not a pass/fail certificate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Oz07 said: They are paid to test air leakage and give you a result not a pass/fail certificate Yeah, he said as the house wasn't finished enough I could make a final test result worse. The result was 0.49ACH so yes policing/conning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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