Surface water

[Ktelobb]

Hi, has anyone had any experience of getting highways to agree to you using the highway gully as a means to discharge surface water? We feel this now could be our only option, but I fear highways will not agree. We are rural and we have a gully in front of the house, we can put a storage attenuation tank in and a pump so as to mitigate any storm surge. Just wondered if anyone had any experience of doing the same. Or if you can think of any other way to discharge our roof water as we are in clay soil and the percolation tests have failed. 
 

May thanks

[PeterW]

Gully or drainage ditch ..? @PeterStarck discharges rainwater to the road from memory 

[ProDave]

We have a planning condition that says we must not let surface water from the plot onto the road.

 

Not at all difficult to comply with as our plot is lower than the road.  Now if only they imposed the same condition on highways "you must not let surface water from the road onto our plot"

[PeterW]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Now if only they imposed the same condition on highways "you must not let surface water from the road onto our plot"

Be careful what you wish for ..!! Plot near me complained about this incessantly and in the end the council came and raised the pavement crossing to make it camber back toward the road - driveway became completely unusable as the break over angle was too steep and they ended up paying the council to put it back how it was and then install an Aco drain at the boundary so they paid twice for the same thing ... 

[ProDave]

No chance of the council here doing anything.  There has been a blocked culvert here for all the time we have been here.  In winter we in effect have a permanent ford down the road, the water runs across the road and then down through the garden of the neighbour to our old house (I made sure the ground level was banked up along our plot to stop it entering). Just about everybody has complained to the council several times and the best they will do is come and stick a patch of tarmac in when the ford washes away part of the road surface.

[Ktelobb]

30 minutes ago, ProDave said:

We have a planning condition that says we must not let surface water from the plot onto the road.

 

Not at all difficult to comply with as our plot is lower than the road.  Now if only they imposed the same condition on highways "you must not let surface water from the road onto our plot"

We don’t have this Planning condition on our site, hopefully that will work in our favour. 

[Gone West]

4 hours ago, Ktelobb said:

Hi, has anyone had any experience of getting highways to agree to you using the highway gully as a means to discharge surface water? We feel this now could be our only option, but I fear highways will not agree. We are rural and we have a gully in front of the house, we can put a storage attenuation tank in and a pump so as to mitigate any storm surge. Just wondered if anyone had any experience of doing the same. Or if you can think of any other way to discharge our roof water as we are in clay soil and the percolation tests have failed. 
 

May thanks

Yes as @PeterW says we got permission to discharge surface water directly onto the adjacent lane. We would have needed a large storage tank and soakaway area and we have only a small site. I asked the BCO if he would object and he was happy as long as the Highways Department were. Highways were more than helpful and as there is no formal drainage on our lane and it slopes down away to a ditch 200m away it was allowed.

[Ktelobb]

3 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

Yes as @PeterW says we got permission to discharge surface water directly onto the adjacent lane. We would have needed a large storage tank and soakaway area and we have only a small site. I asked the BCO if he would object and he was happy as long as the Highways Department were. Highways were more than helpful and as there is no formal drainage on our lane and it slopes down away to a ditch 200m away it was allowed.

Thanks for the advice very helpful

[Temp]

23 hours ago, Ktelobb said:

Hi, has anyone had any experience of getting highways to agree to you using the highway gully as a means to discharge surface water? We feel this now could be our only option, but I fear highways will not agree. We are rural and we have a gully in front of the house, we can put a storage attenuation tank in and a pump so as to mitigate any storm surge. Just wondered if anyone had any experience of doing the same. Or if you can think of any other way to discharge our roof water as we are in clay soil and the percolation tests have failed. 
 

May thanks

 

Yes we did.

 

When we applied for PP there was a condition requiring us to submit plans for surface water drainage. Our only option was a "piped ditch" that runs along the verge of the road. Decades ago it would have been an open ditch but was piped and covered by tarmac when the road was made up decades ago.

 

I proposed putting surface water into the ditch and the planners forwarded my letter to the EA. They responded saying that they "wouldn't want us to make local flooding worse". The planners simply forwarded the EA letter to me. In response I proposed a rainwater recycling tank with overflow to the ditch and the planners agreed it (possibly without asking the EA again). That despite a rainwater tank not providing attenuation when its full.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Temp]

PS If it was once an open ditch I believe you may have a right to allow surface water to run off into it if the land slopes that way? I didn't investigate that aspect though.

[Temp]

Google found..

https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/downloads/file/16062/guidance_on_landowner_responsibilities.pdf

Quote

Roadside Ditches and Watercourses There are three categories of roadside ditch:

 

• A ditch in the field side of a fence or hedge taking land drainage as well as highway drainage which is the responsibility of the Riparian Owner(s).
• A ditch on the road side of a fence or hedge taking land drainage as well as highway drainage, which is also the responsibility of the Riparian Owner(s).
• A ditch created by the Highway Authority for the sole purpose of draining the highway. The Highway Authority is responsible for the ditch.

 

Most open ditch drainage systems are the responsibility of the Riparian Owner(s) but the Highway Authority has prescriptive powers to drain the highway in to them. Riparian Owner(s) are those who own the land adjoining the highway. The duty to keep all roadside ditches clear, with the exception of those created by the Highway Authority for the sole purpose of draining water from the Highway, falls to Riparian Owner(s). This duty extends to the entire width of the ditch. The Highway Authority has powers to cleanse and restore the profile of these ditches, however the exercise of these powers does not relieve Riparian Owners of their duties, who may still be charged.

snip
Who is a Riparian Owner? The owner of land or property that adjoins a watercourse, such as a roadside ditch, is known as the Riparian Owner. Although the Highways Authority is responsible for the highway, we do not own the ‘sub-soil’ of the highway. The owner of the land or property adjoining the highway is normally the sole Riparian Owner.
 

 

 

I don't know what happens to riparian rights when a ditch of the second type is piped and covered over.

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Temp

[Temp]

I guess it may depend if it's a former piped ditch or something the Highways built for their own purpose..

 

https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/assets/Roads-and-transport/Flooding-and-drainage/Riparian-Ownership/2018-12-07-Riparian-Ownership-in-Suffolk-Booklet-FINAL.pdf

 

[joe90]

Our building inspector initially wanted a soakaway but I pointed out a hole in solid clay like we have would just stay full of water, he agreed to my suggestion it was piped into an existing ditch which is where any surface water would go anyway. This led into a road gulley for 50m then to a ditch carrying water eventually to a stream then river.